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Wow, all that reading made me tired! I don’t have anything else to add, except that I agree with Tiger and Reliable.
Didn’t anyone hear of the saying, “you should never talk of religion and politics in good copmany?” This is why. Everyone believes in one thing or another thing.
Contrary to what most people choose to believe, the bible cannot be interpreted in many “completely different interpretations.” Because the Holy Spirit is the one who interpretes for us and we follow. The bible is not an ordinary book like any novel or any newspaper. It is unique and it does not contradict itself. So therefore, your/the interpretations have to be in harmony with the rest of the bible. If they are not, then the bible itself will prove you wrong. I have shown you that the bible proves that your interpretations are wrong.
Woo now hold on a sec… there are numerous Christian denominations, the Roman Catholics, the Church of England, the Jehovas Witnesses, the Pentacostalists, the list goes on and on, now I thought all these groups have varying interpretations of the bible, and then within said groups are others with slightly varying interpretations of the bible, so either all these varying sects all agree on every single point for there interpretations on the bible which seems to not be the case, or you believe that everyone who believes different to you is wrong, as they would not have the correct interpretation as dictated by the Holy Spirit? am i right?
I can honestly tell you that you can’t because the bible will not support the interpretations you are giving the scriptures. The disagreement does not exist between us but between you and the word of God. Like I said before, my job is to show this to you
And that arrogance is why the arguement is pointless… if you are convinced that your interpretation is right, no matter what, what is the point in arguing? Personally i think my interpretation has just as much chance of being valid as yours or anyone else’s.
Now don’t get me wrong, if you wish to speak about homosexuality on a general point of view and not use “Christianity” or the bible to justify your point. Then by all means do so, but if you are using the bible or Christianity incorrectly, I will intervene. It is because of these things that many people see Christianity as something bad because so many people use it for their own profit and disregard the doctrines of Christianity.
Yes, this bugs me to, note i don’t believe that the bible supports homosexuality, i just don’t believe that the bible is anti-homosexual, or for that matter that God is, it just bugs me when people use the bible to support homosexual predjudice, when in my mind the bible teaches anything but. Personally i would prefer to have an arguement about homosexuality without refering to the bible, as then logic would certainly prevail and homosexuality be acknowledged as perfectly natural, but seeing as any discussion of homosexuality inevitably ends up with people claiming support from the bible, this is extremely difficult.
You are missing one thing and that is, sins are not wrong because they harm the society. They are wrong because they are disobedience to the word of God. God hates sins, so therefore homosexuality is wrong. Whether or not it harms the society does not justify nor does it change the fact that it is wrong.
Yes but why do you think god hates homosexuality, he just decided homosexuality is bad i’m not having it, doesn’t sound the action of a loving and forgiving god, most of the other sins are bad, because in some way they will end up harming one person or another, homosexuality won’t, so why would God be against it?
The whole idea that homosexuality is a sin seems completely illogical to me, and not the kind of thing God would get all het up about, but exactly the kind of thing which may have filtered into the religion as Gods word due to the bigotry of some of those who spoke about Gods word. Just my opinion, but I think its valid, God isn’t unreasonable, so why on earth would he just decide that homosexuality is wrong for no concievable logical reason?
Crazy Penguin wrote:Woo now hold on a sec… there are numerous Christian denominations, the Roman Catholics, the Church of England, the Jehovas Witnesses, the Pentacostalists, the list goes on and on, now I thought all these groups have varying interpretations of the bible, and then within said groups are others with slightly varying interpretations of the bible, so either all these varying sects all agree on every single point for there interpretations on the bible which seems to not be the case, or you believe that everyone who believes different to you is wrong, as they would not have the correct interpretation as dictated by the Holy Spirit? am i right?Point 1 – God never created denominations. So we can conclude that denominations are not the creation of God but man’s creations so therefore, fallible.
Point 2 – All of the denominations that you mentioned have one thing in common, and that is they all “believe in Jesus Christ.” Now note that the bible clearly says that not all who say Lord Lord Lord! will enter His Kingdom.
Point 3 – It is not the denomination that you should look at – Look at their doctrines and compare them to the bible. That’s where the verity lies. You will find many of their doctrines are wrong according to the bible. I.E. – Infant Baptism. But I am not going into all that because we will go off topic. But I am more than ready to discuss it with you personally or openly if you would like. Simply start a topic or send me an instant message.
Crazy Penguin wrote:And that arrogance is why the arguement is pointless… if you are convinced that your interpretation is right, no matter what, what is the point in arguing? Personally i think my interpretation has just as much chance of being valid as yours or anyone else’s.You are welcome to prove my interpretations wrong according to the bible. If you do prove this to me then I will humbly accept my mistake and accept the truth for my own benefit. I am not omniscient so I do not know everything. I am a human being and therefore I am fallible. So please, if you do feel that I am wrong in my interpretations, feel free to show me the way according to the bible. I am here not to cause trouble but to share our knowledge and thoughts. Share our agreements and disagreements. Learn from each other.
Crazy Penguin wrote:Yes, this bugs me to, note i don’t believe that the bible supports homosexuality, i just don’t believe that the bible is anti-homosexual, or for that matter that God is, it just bugs me when people use the bible to support homosexual predjudice, when in my mind the bible teaches anything but. Personally i would prefer to have an arguement about homosexuality without refering to the bible, as then logic would certainly prevail and homosexuality be acknowledged as perfectly natural, but seeing as any discussion of homosexuality inevitably ends up with people claiming support from the bible, this is extremely difficult.Really? How can the bible not anti-homsexuality when it condemns the act?
Crazy Penguin wrote:Yes but why do you think god hates homosexuality, he just decided homosexuality is bad i’m not having it, doesn’t sound the action of a loving and forgiving god, most of the other sins are bad, because in some way they will end up harming one person or another, homosexuality won’t, so why would God be against it?This is the difference between you and I, God says that He hates sins. And no homosexuals will have a place in the Kingdom of God. I believe that. I am not going into “why does God hates homosexuality” etc… This is where denominations start. You are welcome to do you but not I – I accept God’s words and I abide in them because I know who the GOd I am serving is. If He is for or against something, He knows why. While I may not know or see ANY POSSIBLE REASON God would be against something, but knowing that He is omniscient and omnipotent, I know that it is for the best. Beside, God is unlimited – I can’t even begin to completely comprehend Him. But I am glad that He has given me a chance to know and have a relationship with Him with my limited knowledge.
Crazy Penguin wrote:The whole idea that homosexuality is a sin seems completely illogical to me, and not the kind of thing God would get all het up about, but exactly the kind of thing which may have filtered into the religion as Gods word due to the bigotry of some of those who spoke about Gods word. Just my opinion, but I think its valid, God isn’t unreasonable, so why on earth would he just decide that homosexuality is wrong for no concievable logical reason?One thing we need to avoid is trying to say what we think God would say rather than actually accepting what He says.
Okay i’ll be the first to admit i didn’t read half the things some people posted when it came to certain bible chapters and stuff, because i personally as i stated, do not take the bible seriously and if you think that makes me a bad person so be it. But the thing is that is the only thing you can bring up against homosexuals, is THE BIBLE, that’s it, nothing else is solid, just that one book. I mean hey you may be right, maybe the bible has some good things in it, i just don’t see them, as i think of it just as any other book. Homosexuals shouldn’t be judged on basis of that one book. Its like telling me if one day another book appears that is a second part to the bible that God himself asked to be released on a certain year, and it approved of homosexuality, would you agree with it then? Just because of that? I honestly believe in people being entitled to their own opinion, but basing it on one book isn’t enough. Its a life style and whether it be wrong or right, we still shouldn’t impose judgement on them…Just like you are judging them, others are judging you as you said…
And i know no matter what i say will change anyone’s mind but just in that same way, no matter what others type will change my way of thinking. I take them into consideration of what could be, but i won’t take them in. And for my typing to later be broken down and analyzed based on one book is something i don’t really expect to read and listen too.
And to reliable, No matter what you would say to me on any type of thing, would i change my mind. Same goes for church…i go by what i was taught….i was taught that, “god” the higher being i believe in, is everywhere….so i have no need to go to church, since he is everywhere. You can’t change how people think in that sense…So don’t come back and break up everything i typed because it doesn’t change my mind…Respect my opinions just like i repect yours.
ok…. I realize that this is an open discussion, and as such it’s left up to the members who post to state their opinion in expectation that it will be considered by other members. However… I think that by this point the “discussion” about homosexuality has turned into more of an argument. Let’s either try to veer away from that particular debate and towards one of the other points in Qwerty’s original post, or try to ease off on the current debate. Otherwise, I only see this going downhill rapidly. Please?
how about you make a seperate topic just for peoples views on homosexuality, and then maybe this will turn back into its original discussion
@hatedjealousy
Did you even read my posts? Because if you did you couldn’t have missed this.
Reliable wrote:It would be ignorant of me to think of convincing you because I know that I can’t and it is not job to do so. My job is to introduce you to the truth and the choice is up to you. I cannot force the Christian faith on your throats nor can I stone you for not accepting it. But if you choose to use the bible or choose to talk about Christianity, do it correctly and accordign to the Christian faith. The moment you say something that is against or wrong about the Christian faith (using the bible or anything ) it will be my job to show you what the word teaches.Yes, i read that part….I just skipped the actual verses taken from the bible. And i know you aren’t trying to convince….but SHOWING is still kinda the same thing. In the end you were trying to show your way, was right. But everyone has their opinions, and they are well respected.
ok ok people. i accept the fact that the discussion has brought out some argumentative sides of us, but let’s cap it at that. no more back and forth of ‘i’m right you’re wrong’ anymore.
if you have something to discuss about one of the four topics, by all means post it. but please refrain from turning this into a religious debate as it’s become. if you choose to use religion to back up a point, fine. if you choose not to use it, fine. if you choose to disagree with whatever is said, also fine. but don’t start arguing with the other party over it. let’s keep this civil.
I disagree tigerblade. We have to decide if religion is a valid argument or not. Otherwise this woudl be a good discussion.
I don’t feel religion is valid. In a proper dabate, the god or bible can not be used to strengthen your argument. I think if this is going to be a proper discussion, we must either decide if it’s allowed or not.
as it’s going thus far, you’ll never come to a consensus of whether or not it’s allowed. half of us think it’s perfectly valid, the other half think it’s completely invalid. it’s a deadlocked jury on that one. it’s the same with the rest of the argument – neither side is going to convince the other to switch sides. i just don’t want to see this turn into a religion-bashing thread when it started off so well as a simple discussion idea.
i notice that after the first few posts, it veered completely away from any of the other topics of discussion and focused solely on homosexuality.
I didn’t think it said that no one was able to focus on one aspect of what was asked. I am enjoying what I am reading. Haven’t seen a real good debate like this here at BBB for quite some time. I’m impressed (no matter my opinion on the subject). Thank you, and for the moderator (that also doesn’t run this section) just take a pill dude. No one is bashing or bitching. It’s a simple debate — keep your knickers on 🙂
since this is turning into more of a debate than “just a simple discussion” maybe #1 there should be a debate forum on bbb where anything goes, and #2 the homosexuality discussion should get its own thread, and with that being said, i feel the bible is a valid argument and should be used in this topic
This was the whole point, tiger, discussion based on the original post. It’s worked perfectly and neither reliable or crazy have turned to flaming, Tyhey both have good arguments. The point isn’t to change everyone’s opinons, just to stimulate thought and decent discussion.
And the bible? I don’t think it should be allowed. This forum is typically American and America being a typically conservative and religious country will let the bible be a valid argument. But should we have it cause it is supported by about half of the community or not because it is not supported by the majoirty of society?
That, and, it just doesn’t work in discussion. There are so many loopholes and excuses it seems to kill discussuion. As reliable has done to some extenet. It’s also quite offensive when he says “it’s (the bible) the way, if you don’t want to follow it, it’s your own fault.”
Qwerty wrote:As reliable has done to some extenet. It’s also quite offensive when he says “it’s (the bible) the way, if you don’t want to follow it, it’s your own fault.”Interesting, is it offensive when someone disagree with someone’s view? If I do not accept your views, who’s fault is it? Yours or mine? So according to your statement – this is offensive?Honestly, I am actually getting annoyed with the off topic little posts as to whether or not religion should be allowed in this thread while the original topic ask for your views.
If you guys are not ready to have an open this discussion then say that. But if having a discussion ends up in complaining the minute people question other’s points/claim, I myself will withdraw from this discussion because it is a complete waste of time for myself. A discussion is to be done thoroughly and expect that there will be some off-topic times but the main point is that you are not lost to the off-topic times and come back to the original topics.
I have done nothing from this thread except discussed people’s view. Except for the fact that I remained on the biblical view. Notice, I did not reply to those who were expressing their view excluding the bible and Christianity. I replied to those who were using the bible incorrectly to prove their points.
Since this discussion is going to continue like this, making up a riot where there is none, I will personally remove myself from this thread. Not that anyone will care when I do but it will be the right thing to do because this discussion will be leading to nowhere. And I can already see that this will lead to “no using biblical passages,” which I will never follow. I am a Christian and God is the number one priority in my life. His words is good for…..
2 Timothy 3:16 – All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So, whatever discussion I may be having, I will never choose not to use the bible nor be forced not to use it by moderators or administrators.
I had fun discussing with you guys – may the Lord blesses you abundantly.
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