Home › Forums › Archives › Computer Support › Online Privacy, Safety & Security › Log your IM chats, Go to Jail?
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April 13, 2004 at 7:00 pm #4051Jeff HesterKeymaster
New Hampshire is one of several states where logging an IM conversation without the express permission of both parties could be a felony offense.
Is it a reasonable protection of your privacy, or another example of a judge misunderstanding technology? Read the article then post your views here.
April 14, 2004 at 1:58 am #46747EvanMemberso the chat log for trillian is illegal in those states?
April 14, 2004 at 2:04 am #46743DavidParticipantAll I can say is…..WTF?
So now logging could be illegal, and saving any IM conversation data to my disk could be illegal (If I lived in those States)?!?
Why don’t we outlaw temp internet files a well, and your router and firewall cannot log anything either.
I’d definitely say that the judge screwed up, big time!
April 14, 2004 at 3:39 am #46746EvanMemberyes agreed. this is the dumbest thing I have heard
April 14, 2004 at 4:26 am #46753Dr KimbleParticipantWhat if someone threatens you or partakes in a disorderly act on IM and you log it to nab them…do you go to jail with them???
That is awful for those states!!!April 14, 2004 at 11:58 am #46750TheMetsAreBadMemberWhich states agreed to this?
April 14, 2004 at 2:49 pm #46736detn8rParticipantQuote:quote:http://www.securityfocus.com/printable/columnists/233Clearly Detective Warchol consented to the recording he made, and MacMillan had little expectation of privacy in the chat session. But New Hampshire, like many other U.S. states including California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Pennsylvania and Washington, requires all parties to the communication to consent to a recording before it is legal. And MacMillan, while engaged in the conversation with the putative 14-year-old, did not consent to recording the conversation.
April 14, 2004 at 3:29 pm #46737magistykMemberThis is just plain stupid. Nothing more to say about it.
April 14, 2004 at 3:45 pm #46735Jeff HesterKeymasterQuote:quote:Originally posted by Dr KimbleWhat if someone threatens you or partakes in a disorderly act on IM and you log it to nab them…do you go to jail with them???
That is awful for those states!!!Well in the case described in the article, a police detective posed as a 14 year old girl to catch a pedophile. The recorded IM sessions were a key part of the evidence, but the defense attorney argued that it was illegally obtained because of wiretap laws, which essentially state that the police (or anyone else) can’t record their conversation with you without either 1.) your permission or 2.) permission from a judge (sim. to a search warrant).
Essentially, the judge found that the police detective committed a felony (although no charges were filed) when he recorded the conversation without either of those.
Now in reality, the police are not going to come get you because you have logs. What this really means is that those logs may not be admissible as evidence, should you ever go to trial over something else.
For example, if your employer records (without your knowledge or permission) a private conversation between you and your significant other, they can’t use this against you to kick your ass out. UNLESS of course you’ve already signed away any thoughts of privacy at work (which you probably did).
Although the spirit of the law seems fair and reasonable, the spectre is ominous. Think about how many MILLIONS of potential felons there are, given a strict interpretation of the law.
Scary.
April 14, 2004 at 9:14 pm #46745EvanMemberso I better go turn off my trill logger then
April 14, 2004 at 9:53 pm #46751syntaxMemberSo, now you have to get permission from the person(s) you’re talking to before you log or save part of the conversation? (if you live in the affected States) That’s crazy.
April 15, 2004 at 1:57 am #46752Dr KimbleParticipantQuote:quote:All that stuff Jeff said [:P]Now that I think about it…I don’t think logs would be good evidence in court under any circumstance, because they can so easily be altered 🙁
April 15, 2004 at 7:11 pm #46756RigorMortisMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by Dr KimbleNow that I think about it…I don’t think logs would be good evidence in court under any circumstance, because they can so easily be altered 🙁
Exactly what I was thinking. What court is gonna accept a flimsy little text file that any 12 year old could edit, please.
April 17, 2004 at 4:48 pm #46738HotmopMemberIf you really think about it, exactly what evidence is unalterable? Photos can be altered. Text can be selectively edited. Identities can be faked.
On the otherhand, consider that EVERYONE who consents to load and use an instant messenger or send an email has already implied permission for their conversations to be recorded. After all, if you don’t IM, you can’t be accused of chatting inappropriately.
Who said the internet was fair?
April 17, 2004 at 5:07 pm #46741rascatMemberIn response to Hotmop, while photos and videos are alterable, even the best editing can be spotted by professionals. As far as logging, the law serves not only to make the evidence impermissable in court it also stops you from using the conversation against anyone. For instance, if I tell you something in confidence or otherwise that is potentially damaging or even just embarassing and you show it to someone else, that is now a felony because the conversation was not supposed to be logged. The law is seemingly ridiculous, but in the face of everyone complaining about the recent patriot act this law serves both to restrict government actions and protect the privacy of citizens. I think it would be wise to write the law in a clearer more sensible manner yes, but the FBI is not going to come to your house for logging a conversation. If you really want to log legally, add something in your buddy icon that says all conversations are logged. If you tell them that, than any continuance of the conversation is consent to the recording.
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