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😉 From discussion in the chat room. Beware it’s “controversial”.
Alright, so we have two sides to this debate. We got the god exists and we got the there aren’t no god pal. I’m going to try and present both sides but don’t hold your breath.
Alright, first I’ll share my honest opinion and side of the story: A long time ago there were people who had evolved from stupid people and these people had lots of questions about the universe and world around them. e.g.: what is that thing in the sky that hurts our eyes? Where did we come from? Is it ok for me to touch that hot chick over there etc.. So then these wise guys thing it may be a god idea to cash in on this ignorance of the general populace. They created god and all throughout the world different places had different gods but they were all basically existed on the same premise.
Then people got smarter and some people got too smart e.g.: Galileo, Darwin. These people started to get proof and write papers about things that had made man curious for ages. Unfortunately for these wise guys or “church”, these smart people’s theories and papers disagreed with the church. So the church locked them up, exiled them or they didn’t need to do either as the rest of the general populace trusted the church and thought the clever one witch his telescopes and microscopes was a crazy idiot.
But many years later science was much more mainstream. Science shot plot holes all through the bible and so the “church” created this theory that god liked to “test” us. And it went on like this for a bit more.
Then we have the present day. Religion is still around but these church wise guys aren’t so wise anymore. They got sucked into the system buy their predecessors. Confliction religions feud over what they believe contradicting their own beliefs about not sinning. The whole situation is a joke.
Then we have the other side of the story: God exists and he allows bad things to happen although he is the all powerful. God also likes to create homosexuals even though homosexuality is “sinning”. Then again if we believe in the devil, the devil creates homosexuals and God still allows this even though he is all powerful.
Well that’s all I have for now. Comment.
I think your philosophy sucks. heh. Way too far fetched to believe. Actually, you would have to be more foolish and silly to believe it (no offense, please).
I can’t see how you believe that man that began from evolution thought of creating a figure like God (and actually God himself) to answer questions like “what is that thing that hurts my eyes when I look at it in the sky”.
Thinking of what happened with the clergy during the Renaissance in Italy, and how the clergy was abused, I guess you can get some assumption, but definitely not during evolution.
Speaking as a Christian, it is very hard to comprehend everything, and actually anything. I have faith of what did happen, and I keep an open mind of sciences vs. religion, but I have made my decision of what to believe. And to me, it is the correct one. I am not here (and NO ONE else will bash another’s belief) to bash on your belief, Qwerty, as anyone can say what they like against religion, and specifically Christianity.
You may believe that asking for forgiveness is some ‘loop whole’ to being accepted to God, but there is obviously much more to that.
Anyway, I stated my opinion against you Qwerty, and I hope others can stay mature about it. And leave this as a message to future repliers: if you get off topic, flame or become a troll, you will be dealt with accordingly. Please keep this discussion with an open mind if possible and keep it friendly. That is all I ask. Thank you. 🙂
I don´t think Religion and Science can´t coexist coherently. I don´t see it as a a choice, one OR the other, I don´t see why one opposses the other. I would say the opposite of being religious is being atheist not scientist. So, the whole argument of this discussion is kind of confusing to me.
Lets not forget that there are lots of different religions, and churches, some churches might oppose science, but some others might not.
In Europe, as you might know, catholic related schools, colleges and universities, carried the responsability of educating the population long before the public educational system was developed enough. Some of these schools and Universities are still a reference for excellence in education, and, as weird as it might sound to you, in Science. The most respected school for Chemistry and Biology during the first three quarters of last century was actually a Catholic University, and although now they might not have as many resources as other public schools, they still rank the best in some Science majors.
I know lots of Scientists, as I do research myself, and I assure you half of them are religious, and they are prominent scientists to whom you owe a lot more than you thing, for example, your hard-drive capacity, or magnetic reading and recording. If you tell me that they are not smart because they are religious…well, I tell you they are the main brains of the world…so if they are not smart…then the rest of us are not dumb, but retarded, hehehe.
Intelligence and religion are unrelated, science and religion are unrelated. You won´t find any scientist (at least with some reputation) that doesn´t believe in evolution, that doesn´t mean he cannot believe in god. You can desagree with the church where you belong, because a church is made of men that can totally be wrong (that has been proven obvious over history), and still believe in god and be religious.
I think there is a confusion between agreeen with certain church and being religious. On the other hand, since I was a kid, Catholic instructors told me that the old books in the bible were symbolic text. That I should read knowing that those are not facts, but indications to learn from. Some other churches tell their people that all you read in the old books is true, and therefore, incompatible with science.
That is why I say, you can totally be religious and a scientist, maybe you just have to choose your church…
NataliaI mean comeon….God created Science…..;)….
From my statement….yeah I’m a church Goer…however. God do excist and science help proves it. But Don’t take my word for it….take Albert Einstein…;)
You see, in one of the articles I read, Albert was writting a paper regarding Time. And he described us as simply a piece from a exploding Grenade. He said we are simply on a piece of a exploding gernade riding forward in time. However, one question puzzled him. Assming we and the grenade were “just there”, then how in the world did we become a flying piece of that grenade riding forward into time? The only answer is that SOMEONE had to pull the pin…let me say that again. SOMEONE HAD to pull the pin…..:eek:
I mean come on……do you really REALLY think that all of this…..is by chance? All of the ecosystems, the way things interact and our body the universe….all ONE BIG CHANCE? All of this from one BIG BANG?…:confused:
Think about it…..
Qwerty, I enjoyed that discussion last night, and was sorry I couldn’t stick around longer.
Sciencefeeling’s response covers it pretty well. It’s not a question of either/or. They don’t cancel each other out. The Bible doesn’t address dinosaurs, but of course we know they existed. Is this a proof the the Bible is “wrong?” Of course not. It does illustrate that the Bible is not a complete record of every event in the history of this world. That isn’t its purpose.
Some scientific theories may raise questions about religious beliefs (and vice versus), but that’s a good thing. In the old testament God instructs man to learn everything we can about the world around us. Critical thinking sharpens our understanding of that world. So please, continue to challenge and ask questions. In the process, we all benefit.
There is one important bit of advice I’ll offer from the perspective of my 42+ years on this planet. The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know. If you think you have all the answers, you probably far from the truth.
In the movie “The Big Kahuna” Danny DeVito plays an aging salesman with some advice for the young college grad about character.
“Character,” Devito explains, “is something that develops from the things you do in your life that you regret.”“So I need to go do things that I’ll regret?” asks the college grad.
“No, I’m telling you that you’ve already done a lot of things that you should regret… you just don’t realize it yet.”
The knowledge of truth is a bit like that. We are finite beings. In geological time, our lives amount to less that a speck of dust. Being finite, it’s impossible for us to comprehend the infinite boundaries of space and time. We can hypothesize and rationalize our beliefs, but it’s very difficult to wrap our arms around something that we cannot experience.
And so we push the boundaries of the known universe and continue to challenge the assumptions of the past. And as we collectively learn and grow, we realize how much more there is that we’ve yet to understand.
Ahh the big issues…. ok here’s my take on the matter…
First of all i’m going to agree with several of the other posters and say religion and “the church” (for teh church here read the various established christain religions)are compleltely different things in many respects and are frequently confused by many people in discusions about religion. Religion is a belief, the church espouses one set of beliefs, but religion and the church are in my mind very different. a lot of discussions about religion seem to get bogged down by people taking points from church doctrine, and from the bible and saying this is wrong, therefore religion is clearly a load of rubbish and we shouldn’t even bother talking about it anymore.
The most important thing i think we should take from the bible, is that in my opinion it’s not meant to be taken literally, the bible may have been inspired by god, but it wasn’t written by god, it didn’t fall from the sky various men wrote it, and men can be wrong. Then added to these possible misunderstandings, theres the numerous misunderstandings and errors that can creep in through numerous translations and copyngs, and deliberate changes by those who disagree with it. then theres all the metaphors and allegorys *i think thats the word?) which have crept into the bible. So the bible isn’t exactly the be all and end all on religion… anyway i wondered off track a bit there.. back to the main thread
Religion and Science are in my opinion complimentary halves of the same aspect, explaining why things happen, some things can be explained by science, some things look like they will be explained by science, and other things science cannot explain. So the obvious answer is that “something” other, or god did thsi, like the example that kyubbi quoted, somethings, like the big bang for example seem like they can only be explained by god.
However in my opinin this is not teh most importnat part of religion, the most importnat part is the morals and values they espouse, which have become part of society, altruism and such like, tehse essential rules are ot me the best value religion has, though thats just my opinion.
anyway yeah, you seem to have got confuse diwth teh whoel science vs teh chrsitain church debate querty, which is very different.
So yeah god or something exists, and science compliments god.
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