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May 16, 2004 at 1:23 am #10087AwesomeSauceParticipant
http://members.cox.net/classicweb/Heroes/heroes.htm
When the video’s finished, click the tiny print at the bottom that says info[/b]. This guy went through a lot of trouble to get his point across.
May 17, 2004 at 11:30 am #79610sciencefeelingMemberI personally am offended by “his point”.
I find it irrational and offensive to international legality and worldwide peace.
You are free to post whatever though, even if, to me, you are promoting unjustified intercultural hate, and therefor, terrorism Don´t think what I say is the product of fast writing, I mean it, I think that website is “apology of terrorism”, governmet´s terrorism. It is so hard for me to imagine how a self-called christian could write something like that, it goes against christianism, people just don´t know the meaning of religion anymore.
Everything in that site, is offensive to democracy, to god, and to me, that firmly believe in both things.
I am not wrting this as a moderator, I am wrting this as a person, as a christian, as a defender of the value of a single life, and of everybody´s freedom, not only mine.
N.-
May 17, 2004 at 1:15 pm #79613MartinBradleyMemberI think the point of the post was a sort of tribute and memorial to those killed in the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. I don’t think the point of the post was to offend people. However I can see where you are coming from, saying that you were offended, I see why. I personally am not offended by this, I found it quite stirring. What happened was tragic, and I don’t think anyone will ever forget it. Still, think what you will.
May 17, 2004 at 2:24 pm #79611tangledlisaMemberThis is actually one of the more tasteful tributes that I have seen since the attacks of 9/11. I don’t see how viewing/revisiting a part of our history could be irrational but yes we all do have our opinion.
Four freedoms: The first is freedom of speech and expression – everywhere in the world. The second is freedom of everyone to worship God in his own way, everywhere in the world. The third is freedom from want . . . everywhere in the world. The fourth is freedom from fear . . . anywhere in the world.
–Franklin D. Roosevelt U.S. PresidentMay 17, 2004 at 11:19 pm #79618Penguin HunterMemberQuote:quote:you are promoting unjustified intercultural hate, and therefore, terrorismI think you are wrong; the ones who are promoting unjustified intercultural hate are the ones who did the attacks. The site does not promote terrorism, terrorism is already with us, the site forces us to remember what happened and helps us realise that the only way to stop that kind of violence is with greater violence. The people who did the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon felt no remorse that they would be killing thousands of innocent people, that’s how we differ from them we do, but that doesn’t mean we should fight with all our hearts and soul.
Quote:quote:Everything in that site, is offensive to democracy, to god…How is that so? The site tells us that democracy and God will help us in our fight against terrorism. That site is a fitting tribute to those who died on September 11th and reminds us that we are at war for a real reason, not for oil, not so George Bush can finish what his dad started, but to fight for the freedom of everybody from Terror, Persecution and Oppression.
May 18, 2004 at 11:01 am #79609sciencefeelingMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by tangledlisaThis is actually one of the more tasteful tributes that I have seen since the attacks of 9/11. I don’t see how viewing/revisiting a part of our history could be irrational but yes we all do have our opinion.
Four freedoms: The first is freedom of speech and expression – everywhere in the world. The second is freedom of everyone to worship God in his own way, everywhere in the world. The third is freedom from want . . . everywhere in the world. The fourth is freedom from fear . . . anywhere in the world.
–Franklin D. Roosevelt U.S. PresidentSentences are ok…did you read the “info” section? Sentences are writen by wise people, is the info section that is wrten by the site author´s what actually ofended me.
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Penguin HunterQuote:quote:you are promoting unjustified intercultural hate, and therefore, terrorismI think you are wrong; the ones who are promoting unjustified intercultural hate are the ones who did the attacks. The site does not promote terrorism, terrorism is already with us, the site forces us to remember what happened and helps us realise that the only way to stop that kind of violence is with greater violence. The people who did the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon felt no remorse that they would be killing thousands of innocent people, that’s how we differ from them we do, but that doesn’t mean we should fight with all our hearts and soul.
Quote:quote:Everything in that site, is offensive to democracy, to god…How is that so? The site tells us that democracy and God will help us in our fight against terrorism. That site is a fitting tribute to those who died on September 11th and reminds us that we are at war for a real reason, not for oil, not so George Bush can finish what his dad started, but to fight for the freedom of everybody from Terror, Persecution and Oppression.
Ups! I forgot to read the part of the bible that defended to kill thousands of innocents…and where it said that our lives are worth more than other´s lives…but oh well, I will re-read it see if I find it.
N.-
May 18, 2004 at 3:42 pm #79617Penguin HunterMemberOoops! I forgot to read the part where I put that…hmmm…I’ve reread it and I don’t seem to be able to find it…hmmm…nope it isn’t there. I Will say part of it now though our lives are worth a lot more than those of people who don’t think human life is worth anything, like those who organised the attacks and all Terrorist everywhere.
May 18, 2004 at 4:13 pm #79612OreoMemberI have stayed away from this thread in fear of being taken the wrong way. However, at this point, I feel compelled to post. Also, I have not been able to access this “famous” info part…I haven’t seen it on the site. Don’t condemn Science for expressing her views, she sees the situation differently and she is not alone. People in different parts of the world and even in different parts of Europe (yes I have noticed you are from the UK so don’t think I’m an ignorant Yank) view things differently. We all have a right to view them differently and condemning a person for their views….what does that make you??
To many, this site seems like brain washing propaganda, personally all I saw was the site part and not the info…..so my guess is that the info is much different than the site itself. Instead of condeming others for their views, perhaps we should discuss why and how we have those views, to understand them…not necessarily to agree with them.
This is an issue that stirs up lots of emotion, and therefore issues can be misread and miscontrued….both for good and for bad.May 18, 2004 at 4:18 pm #79616Penguin HunterMemberOk, you are right. I’ll go back to a question I asked in mt first post then. How is the site an offence to democracy and god?
May 18, 2004 at 4:31 pm #79608sciencefeelingMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by Penguin HunterOoops! I forgot to read the part where I put that…hmmm…I’ve reread it and I don’t seem to be able to find it…hmmm…nope it isn’t there. I Will say part of it now though our lives are worth a lot more than those of people who don’t think human life is worth anything, like those who organised the attacks and all Terrorist everywhere.
It isnt there because I was refering to the author´s words and not yours. You say he uses god properly for his statements and I was saying he is not, given what he defends…
And if you kill innocents then you are not valueing their lifes, are you?, then, once you kill them, what makes you any better than them?.It is a contradiction itself…
May 19, 2004 at 11:07 am #79614QwertyMemberMmmm..
Quote:quote:The people who did the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon felt no remorse that they would be killing thousands of innocent people, that’s how we differ from them we do,America had been dropping bombs on both (un-intentional) inocents and “hostiles” for years before 9/11 and not just in Wars like Vietnam and the First Gulf War.
9/11 was “justified” to an extent. It wasn’t exactly “ets form a huge, complex plan and attack a famous city”
May 19, 2004 at 8:11 pm #79615Crazy PenguinMember@sciencefeeling
Large parts of the old testament of the bible support the killing of thousands of innocent people. The early jewish history outlined in teh bible is fairly brutal, as is most early history, so I think you can’t say that the bible does not support the killing of innocents in defence of people.however the ideas expressed by the author of the site, about killing thousands to protect america Do go against teh message of teh new testament, the text that the christian George bush and teh majority of americans supposedly follow.
In my opinion the american policy following september the eleventh has been foolish if its aim was to prevent terrorism, teh attcak on afghanistan and the mission againts al-qauedas terrorist networks was justified, and I think did an improtant job in preventing terrorism.
the subsequent attack on Iraq, and the huge damage done to Americas image in the following months has amde it far more likely that american will be the target of a terorist attack.
to use 9/11 as an excuse for american policy in iraq is not only wrong but misguided.
@Penguin hunter
how can you justify the fact that a terrorist life is worth less than “our” lives. America and the western world have done far more damage than any terrorist ever has. and would you inlcude nelson mandela in your all terrosit anywhere?
From your justification the terroist is justified, he is avenging the deaths caused by the uncaring western world, after all the lives of poeple who do not care about lives are nto worth as much. That is just as valid an arguement as the one you propose.
however I should make clear that I in no way support the terrorist attcak on 9/11, but I do not support the way in which america has gone about tackling terorism. a slower, more careful approach to the problem would have solidified the worlld behind america, fighting against terrosim, which I believe is wrong, but instead america has clumsily gone around arousing much anger by their killing of innocents in the arab world, and meaning that the problems in teh middle east are likley to continue for a long long time.
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