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We had an interesting turnout for the chat Tuesday night, and some follow-on discussion has already been posted in the Premier Members forum. You may not agree or even like everything that was said; I don’t. But feedback is a good thing and one thing was evident — everyone who shared really did so with the interest of improving BigBlueBall.
I’m going to post my notes from tonight’s chat in a public forum to allow others to add their comments.
I’m asking that you consider that feedback as I do — as valuable information and the opinion of the person sharing. Don’t take it as a personal affront. Don’t get defensive. It’s a rare and wonderful thing when people open up and share their perceptions honestly, and I want to encourage that.
I feel that if the staff jumps in too quickly, we might stifle that flow of valuable feedback, so for now, let’s keep the staff discussion about that feedback right here in the staff room.
I was really excited by many of the good ideas generated, and the enthusiasm of the participants. We had a lot of the usual suspects, but also a few surprises. BigBlueBall has been around for a while, and could use a little shaking up. I’m looking forward to it — in a good way, of course! 😉
Is there a transcript of this chat? I would be very interested in reviewing it, so I can understand a little more of what took place.
Pheww ok, in a bit of a rush this morning but had a read. What made me giggle a bit, was that both det and hated thought there were too many staff. However, in their next sentence they both were thinking or have asked to join the staff again … will read more later, but found that a bit hypercritical.
Like you say Jeff best not to take the comments to personally. I best go get some work done but think is a great idea, as long as it’s just not people being negitive and we get some positive feedback. Change the name *shakes head* … don’t you dare! :0)
Here’s the transcript:
Jeff: Ok folks, it’s 6pm Pacific time…
Tommy: ok…
Tommy: heh
: Mode change “-S” for channel #BigBlueBall by ShadowdogMU.
ShadowdogMU: 9pm Eastern time…
dvelez1985: 8 central time
Jeff: for the next hour, I’ll be here to discuss your questions and…
Tommy: &BBB @princeG @ShadowdogMU @Tigerblade +Tommy BBBer_490 Clint David detn8r dvelez1985 Jeff LinuxAddict LLXerxes Spike Spike-Vaca
Tommy: ok
Tommy: kewl
Jeff: ideas about the future of BigBlueBall
Tommy: ok
Tommy: i have a question
dvelez1985: ideas?
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dvelez1985: what is your objective?
Tommy: what will the future of BigBlueBall be?
Jeff: Big
Jeff: and Blue
Tommy: lol
ShadowdogMU: heh
princeG: blue is usually sad
Tommy: What will happen in the future?
dvelez1985: include red and white to be patriotic
ShadowdogMU: What about someone like a makeover?
ShadowdogMU: A lot of forums have been doing it?
Tigerblade: is it bally too?
Tommy: &BBB @princeG @ShadowdogMU @Tigerblade +Tommy BBBer_490 Clint David detn8r dvelez1985 Jeff LinuxAddict LLXerxes Spike Spike-Vaca xerraire
Jeff: dvelez: yes, ideas. What changes would you make at BigBlueBall if you could?
Tommy: ok
Tommy: cool
ShadowdogMU: Tigerblade, no.
ShadowdogMU: oops
ShadowdogMU: Tommy, no*
Tommy: what?
ShadowdogMU: Stop mass-highlighting
Tommy: i’m testing
dvelez1985: um if that means making me a mentor i don’t see any other changes!
dvelez1985: lol
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: Mode change “+qo EvilSeph EvilSeph” for channel #BigBlueBall by BBB.
dvelez1985: i’m kidding
Tommy: Hey EvilSeph
princeG: enough testing, it’s time to talk now
ShadowdogMU: Welcome Warren
dvelez1985: but i like big blue ball just the way it is
ShadowdogMU: Oh, Jeff
Tommy: lol
Tigerblade: is glad he doesn’t see any of the “colors” like you fools… custom color scheme is awesome.
Tommy: heh
ShadowdogMU: I’ve being meaning to ask about that, we’ve lost a lot of staff lately, any idea why?
Jeff: Ok, well let’s look at it from a different perspective….
ShadowdogMU: Tigerblade, ditto 😛
Jeff: (I’ll get to your question Brock)
Tommy: More arcade games =)
ShadowdogMU: Ok.
Jeff: Maybe you like BigBlueBall just the way it is…
dvelez1985: but?
Jeff: but what would help build community and make it even better?
Jeff: For example….
Jeff: In the past, we’ve done things like…
Jeff: the iPod giveaway
Tommy: I was suppose to win that…
Jeff: we have the Member of the Month
dvelez1985: oh wow i didn’t know about that
Tommy: I thought of something
Jeff: What are some things that would make it fun?
dvelez1985: lol
dvelez1985: tommy
Tommy: how about the IRC member of the month?
Jeff: What are some things that would encourage participation?
dvelez1985: more games
dvelez1985: that would be good
Jeff: Ok, I heard more arcade games
Tommy: more games like counter strike
Tommy: or something
Tommy: lol
Jeff: On the topic of arcade games…
Tommy: but yea Jeff how about “The IRC member of the month”
LLXerxes: …
Jeff: the staff has discussed that we probably need to periodically reset the scores, to keep it interesting
LLXerxes: It’s a crappy idea, Tommy
princeG: with more games we’ll get more members that will want to just play, they’ll post 10 posts and then never post again
Tommy: Shut up LLXerxes
dvelez1985: yeah that sounds good
Jeff: (Tommy, I’ll get to that suggestion)
Tommy: princeG good point
dvelez1985: i would like to win at some point in my life
Tommy: lol
princeG: it still has to remail a community and not make it a games website, i guess.
Clint: Tommy that is bad, we would have repeating winners a lot because of the low activity that the IRC channel has.
Tommy: damn….
Tommy: lol
LLXerxes: Plus there’s no real way to judge.
Jeff: Good point princeG
Tommy: yea…
Jeff: The games aren’t the main attraction
Tommy: it’s not?
dvelez1985: huh i didn’t join for the game
Tigerblade: the games should not be the main attraction.
dvelez1985: games
Tigerblade: the IM forums should be.
EvilSeph: games?
Clint: Well, Tommy, if that was the case, someone would have to read the logs, and that could/would get boring and take a long time over the month long period.
ShadowdogMU: What if we expand, remove the “Everything about IM”, become a more broad forum?
EvilSeph: I bet half the people don’t know games existed on BBB.
Tigerblade: i’ve barely even looked at the arcade.
Tommy: lol
Clint: I don’t even have enough posts to get to the arcade. o.o
EvilSeph: ShadowdogMU -> Neowin.
ShadowdogMU: I mean not everything, keep IM as our focus, but add a lot more below it, and promote that
EvilSeph: no point competing.
Jeff: Brock, what would you expand it to include?
ShadowdogMU: Well I am getting ideas from other successful forums
LLXerxes: Originality at it’s best.
ShadowdogMU: Of course.
dvelez1985: ok ok we are asking all the wrong questions
Clint: Well, if BBB expanded, I think that it would still need to stay somewhat computer-oriented.
dvelez1985: what does this forum lack
ShadowdogMU: Not exactly sure, I will say expand the computer section more, I mean 99% of my posts are there 😛
dvelez1985: what is our objective
dvelez1985: and who are the target consumer of intrerest
Jeff: The main focus of BigBlueBall will remain IM, VoIP and related technologies
princeG: expand the downloads section of each messenger
EvilSeph: we being entirely honest here?
EvilSeph: if we are
ShadowdogMU: Hey, I tried 😛
Tommy: lol
EvilSeph: we need a more friendly and welcoming CC team.
EvilSeph: you make one little mistake
dvelez1985: i’m with princeg
EvilSeph: and they get offended.
dvelez1985: expand the downloads and put more usefull downloads
EvilSeph: they’re the CC team, they should be able to deal with it in a calm and sensible manner.
Tigerblade: well… with the CC team… i honestly havent’ noticed many *offending* posts.
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Jeff: Ok… one topic at a time
ShadowdogMU: I wouldn’t mind expanding my focus from my computer section, maybe help out a lot more in another area
princeG: there arent really offending posts
Tigerblade: ok Jeff… lead on.
Jeff: first…. the downloads, then we’ll tackle the CC team
EvilSeph: downloads?
Jeff: I like the idea of expanding the downloads section
princeG: right on
Tommy: cool
: Tigerblade has changed the topic on channel #BigBlueBall to Welcome to BigBlueBall.com Chat! — Now: The Future of BBB.
Jeff: but I’d also like to stick to the good stuff
Tigerblade: how would we “expand” the downloads section?
ShadowdogMU: add more?
Jeff: there are lots of crappy add-ons out there that I’d rather not promote
Tommy: like computer tools?
ShadowdogMU: make a more user friendly interface?
ShadowdogMU: the one we have now is pretty decent though
dvelez1985: hey i’ve always wanted to indulge myself with visual basic knowledge and how exactly instant messaging works
princeG: make it more user friendly and update when necessary as they tend to get outdated in a short time
Jeff: As for adding more, we have the ability to do so, but we have only a few contributors
Clint: What exactly is a CC team?
dvelez1985: can we get some forum of programers who want to dedicate their time in making tutorials
Jeff: (clint, we’ll get to that)
ShadowdogMU: Community Center
Clint: Oh, okay. 😉
Tigerblade: dvelez1985 – hold that thought.
Clint: dvelez1985 what kind of tutorials do you mean?
Tommy: How about have a section of computer tools and ultilies?
Clint: Oh, nevermind.. well for the moment anyway.
Tigerblade: ok… download section.
Tigerblade: if we were to “expand” it, how would we do that?
Jeff: yes, I’ve heard that it needs to be updated more frequently…
dvelez1985: kind of a basic in vb and how it works with most protocols like ymsg
Tigerblade: expand it in what ways?
Jeff: that we need “more” downloads…
princeG: I try and update the msn section as often as ic an
Jeff: and that we need a more “user friendly” interface
Tigerblade: more frequent updates, and more downloads.
Tigerblade: honestly, i never really understood the idea of the download section.
princeG: but we need more contribrutors to that, that they’ll actually spend some time to renew it
dvelez1985: user friendly? this site is completely user friendly
Tigerblade: wouldn’t it be more efficient to have a section of *links* to downloads?
Jeff: good suggestions
Jeff: I’ll note those.
Tigerblade: instead of having to manually add the actual files?
Tigerblade: why not just link to the homepages for those products.
Tommy: good idea
Jeff: Good point Tigerblade
Tommy: saves space
Jeff: less updating
Jeff: I’m ok with that
Clint: Tigerblade I was thinking that links might be better, so that way if the program is updated.. okay nevermind >.>
ShadowdogMU: Well I would prefer a direct download link, makes it easier for the novice user to get it
ShadowdogMU: That’s just me
Jeff: Also a good point, Brock, but a lot of people don’t like direct links
Tommy: yea
Jeff: they want to see what they’re getting first
EvilSeph: I’m willing.
Tigerblade: exactly my point though… even direct links to downloads wouldn’t be as efficient
dvelez1985: hey well someone let me know when they want to get back to my idea
EvilSeph: tutorials, downloads etc.
ShadowdogMU: offer both?
EvilSeph: I’m just unable for now.
Tigerblade: because the moment a program gets updated, the link might not work.
Clint: I might be able to do tutorials, depending on what they are.
Tigerblade: like trillian 3.0 and 3.1 installers aren’t named the same.
EvilSeph: well we need to be on our toes.
EvilSeph: it’s possible
dvelez1985: i could probably do networking tutorials
EvilSeph: if we work together.
EvilSeph: a review accompanied by download description
Jeff: Reviews are a great idea, I think. And it’s something that can be done right now
EvilSeph: would work
Tommy: Like how CNET does it…
princeG: the thing is that indeed we wouldnt like to have a bunch of crappy addons here, just the most important and useful and those arent THAT many to be honest..
Jeff: ok… anything else on downloads?
Tigerblade: dvelez1985 – hold your thoughts with the tutorials…. we’ll get there
dvelez1985: ok
Tigerblade: Jeff… no, i’ve got nothing else on downloads… other than i dont like the idea of having to manually update every time a new version comes out.
EvilSeph: why not crappy addons?
Jeff: ok… btw, I’m going to writeup a summary of this chat and post for the record
Clint: I feel like I am making this a bit to difficult, so I will just watch. 😉
EvilSeph: when developers see that we support new baby programs
EvilSeph: they’ll come to us.
ShadowdogMU: That’s a nice idea Jeff
Tommy: oh yea we could have mIRC scripting programs for the download section
Tigerblade: mirc scripting programs?
Jeff: ok… on to warren’s point about friendly (or not) greetings to newcomers
ShadowdogMU: I personally think BBB needs a facelift
Tommy: like polaris
Clint: Scripting programs means addons, right?
Tommy: or no name scripts
EvilSeph: mircscripts.org
EvilSeph: :
princeG: one by one
EvilSeph: I agree Brock.
Tigerblade: ugh, if anything we need *less* scripts.
EvilSeph: Jeff it’s not a regular occurence
Clint: Yeah, thats what I was thinking.. mircscripts.org is a good resource, no need to take their job
EvilSeph: but every little time they do it
EvilSeph: it hurts BBB’s image.
BShink21: I agree with Brock that BBB needs a facelift
EvilSeph: they represent BBB beyond any other staff member, bar yourself.
Tigerblade: ok… // Community Center staff //
ShadowdogMU: I would be happy to work on designing a new BBB
Jeff: Yes, I know… I can’t keep up with all the introduction activity personally
princeG: community center subject
Jeff: maybe I need to spend a little more time in there
Tigerblade: i think i haven’t yet seen many (if any) CC staffers be overly harsh or rude to new members.
Jeff: I’ve had feedback from some people that they felt BBB was too clique-ish
Tigerblade: if anything, it’s generally been when someone posts an introduction where they use outlandish colors and sizes, etc.
: dvelez1985 is now known as derek|BRB.
Clint: Not to sound rude, but to a newcomer, that does make sense. The first thing I though was “Wow, there are a lot of staff groups on here!”
ShadowdogMU: Amen
princeG: i think they are very friendly, but maybe, MAYBE, sometimes staff gets to overeact on some peoples introductions and tend to move it to review requested or just talk about it
Tigerblade: then there’s generally a mild mention of ‘please use normal text’
princeG: just lighten up on that
Jeff: I have seen and heard some attitude. We have to remember that someone new doesn’t know the site or what’s permissible or not, and give them a little slack
Tommy: how about having a forum bot to say hello to the newcomers?
Tigerblade: no
Tigerblade: no forum bots.
Tigerblade: real people.
Tommy: oh
Clint: Perhaps some of the staff groups could be explained in a forum post for some newcomers.
ShadowdogMU: …
Jeff: blech to forum bots
Tigerblade: we need real people doing these.
Clint: Tommy that would be to.. fake.
Tommy: lol
ShadowdogMU: Maybe a FAQ page?
Jeff: Good suggestion Clint
Tommy: i’m just trying to help
ShadowdogMU: What is a mentor… What is an advisor
Jeff: Actually, an updated staff page is something that I’ll post this week
ShadowdogMU: Please!
princeG: There is already a pahe with that, but we gotta stick it i think
Jeff: with an explanation of the various roles
princeG: page*
Tigerblade: sometimes, *some* people do come across as having a bit of … attitude.
Tigerblade: but it’s usually in response to a provocation.
Tigerblade: it’s generally not just spontaneously mean.
ShadowdogMU: Quite frankly, this might sound rude, but… What is the point of a mentor, I mean we can’t really do anything, we are just regular users with access to the staff forums
Jeff: and that is the trick… staff members need to be slow to provocation
Tigerblade: well yes.
Tigerblade: true.
Jeff: Brock, we can discuss that in the staff room, but not here please
Clint: ShadowdogMU maybe a bit of a.. staff member in training. 😉
EvilSeph: a provocation?
EvilSeph: replying to an age old topic
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ShadowdogMU: Ok, no problem Jeff, I’ve just wondered 😛
EvilSeph: which something like “I’m sorry I’m a noob”
EvilSeph: is not provocation
EvilSeph: if it is, then the staff are overly immature.
Jeff: I will spend more time in the Introductions section, and work with the CC team to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Tigerblade: well… true. that i have noticed… when people reply to old topics, some people have responded unnecessarily harshly
: derek|BRB is now known as Derek.
: Derek is now known as dvelez1985.
Tigerblade: but even if you’re a “noob” you have to notice things like timestamps,
Tigerblade: especially when they’re displayed above *every* post.
Tigerblade: so when the last post in a thread was over a year ago…
LLXerxes: owned
Jeff: yes, but there is nothing inherently wrong with replying to an old post
Tigerblade: no, not necessarily.
Clint: Tigerblade, well that happens in many forums. It is just something that people do not know about right away. I bet someone has told you that before, Tigerblade 😉
Tigerblade: but if it’s just a “i agree”
princeG: i never disagreed on replying to very old threads
EvilSeph: it wasn’t “i agree”
dvelez1985: hey can we make it so that in the irc your nickname doesn’t expire in such a short time?
Jeff: if we don’t want people to reply, we should close the discussion
Tigerblade: or giving “advice” to someone who asked for it over a year ago
EvilSeph: it was answering the exact topic of the thread
ShadowdogMU: Yes, but I feel sometimes people go through ALL the old posts, and be like, “Hey! Here is a topic about a similiar problem I have” and thus they hijack the thread
EvilSeph: they said their asl.
Clint: From what I have noticed, many old-post-revivers are something small that is barely relevant to the topic.
EvilSeph: as was requested in the thread.
EvilSeph: it doesn’t matter if the poster is banned
EvilSeph: it’s not grounds for a 3 pronged attack against a member.
Clint: When did anything about banning come up?? ?:-
Jeff: agreed. none of this is a reason to attach someone new
EvilSeph: if I were the member that was attacked
Tigerblade: well no… that’s true.
EvilSeph: I would have left a long time ago.
: BBBer_918 has signed off IRC (Quit: BigBlueBall ROCKS!).
Tigerblade: … heh, n3td3v. forgot about him.
EvilSeph: Jeff!
Tigerblade: in any case.
EvilSeph: fix the Test_ ident 🙁
Jeff: so… we need to revisit the process, and remind ourselves that we were new too at one time
ShadowdogMU: Ha, I remember my first post… then I remember one after that, Shifter gave me bad rep and called me stupid
Jeff: Warren… what are you referring to?
EvilSeph: ShadowdogMU would you rather they repost and get flamed for not searching?
EvilSeph: or perhaps not provide their input which could be the solution to the problem?
EvilSeph: Jeff, webchat 😀
Jeff: ah
Tommy: heh
Jeff: ok
Clint: That brings me to the java IRC problem. It may be because of the built in ident working incorrectly, hence the tilde (~) before the java users name..!
ShadowdogMU: Well, EvilSeph that can go two ways
ShadowdogMU: 1. Searching, find a similar topic, solving problem on their own and being done
ShadowdogMU: or
EvilSeph: I would rather they resurrect the post with their input
ShadowdogMU: 2. Searching, finding a similar topic, the answer is in there and making pointless posts, or hijacking it
EvilSeph: and it be a complete solution for those using Google.
EvilSeph: I must admit, I resurrect plenty posts
Jeff: Ok, welll WE all know how to search, etc., but many people do not
EvilSeph: because I use Google constantly.
Clint: To me, resurrecting old threads is not extremely bad unless it is irrelevant to the topic.
EvilSeph: and that doesn’t return results based on date.
Tigerblade: it’s no problem when people resurrect posts. but… it does become a problem when it’s not related.
Jeff: so can we move to the next suggestion?
EvilSeph: go on
EvilSeph: 🙂
Tigerblade: well… wait.
Jeff: ok
Tigerblade: before we move on.
Jeff: waiting…
dvelez1985: what is the next suggestion?
Tigerblade: what do you suggest in regards to the resurrected post thing then, Jeff?
Tigerblade: have someone tactfully explain that the post is really old, then lock it?
Tigerblade: (when appropriate to lock?)
EvilSeph: in general, on the same train of thought
EvilSeph: I think the staff need to lighten up.
Tigerblade: if it’s a useful post, just leave it.
EvilSeph: when staff warn people
Jeff: I personally have no problem with resurrecting an old post, as long as the reply is relevant
EvilSeph: they sometimes get carried away..
Tigerblade: like the “behind the posters” thread is OLD, but it’s still going.
Tigerblade: which is fine.
Jeff: if it is not relevant, the topic can be split
Jeff: don’t beat up on the poor newbie
Jeff: just split the topic, reply with an explanation
Jeff: no need to get snooty or anything
Tigerblade: noted.
dvelez1985: we should have an old post archive
dvelez1985: if that is possble?
Tigerblade: i have an idea of who’s “being snooty” in the eyes of some people.
dvelez1985: just a suggestion
Tigerblade: dvelez1985 – the whole forum is an archive, technically.
princeG: i always examine very well their post first and the whatever links, and THEN i decide whether is safe to keep going with it
dvelez1985: yes
Tigerblade: old posts just dont show up at the top of the forums.
princeG: but i never react instantly with a no
dvelez1985: but one specifically for that
dvelez1985:
princeG: but, to be honest, I think we see less and less staff activity lately
Tommy: Maybe because it’s summer?
Tommy: and people have vacation?
Tigerblade: honestly, i’ve been less active because i’m working 40hrs a week again
Tigerblade: and havent had much to say.
dvelez1985: That’s not a good excuse
princeG: it could be many reasons, i work too
ShadowdogMU: I’ll admit to that, I have been declining a bit, but 1. I’ve been busy, got a job, 2. I tend to stay in my area more and comp. support can be dead sometimes
Jeff: that’s another topic, and not one for this chat
Tigerblade: okay.
Jeff: ok?
Jeff: ok
ShadowdogMU: and 3. I may not be the first to a topic and I can’t ad danything
princeG: and noone should feel obliged to just post when they cant
ShadowdogMU: ok.
Jeff: now…
Tigerblade: so what are we on now?
princeG: k
Jeff: someone suggested tutorials I believe?
dvelez1985: yes
Jeff: dvelez
Tigerblade: tutorials on what?
Jeff: it’s a good point. BigBlueBall is not just a forum
Jeff: we used to publish tutorials more regularly
EvilSeph: [ 09:31:44 ] [ @princeG ] but, to be honest, I think we see less and less staff activity lately << I have an excuse.
dvelez1985: you have made some tutorials
EvilSeph: summer school + research
EvilSeph: I’m supposed to be being a user.
dvelez1985: for instant the psi thingy was good
EvilSeph: looks like I missed the unspoken deadline =P
Jeff: sepph, hold that topic
ShadowdogMU: We could do tutorials on common things, or even complicated fun things, like that psi thing
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Jeff: great ideas dvelez and shadowdog
dvelez1985: kinda an faq tutorial
princeG: hello naughty
Clint: I think that to start, there should be some tutorials showing new users how to get around the forums. Some users are not used to forums (or vBulletin), and may need some help getting around.
Naughty: yo
Tommy: hey Naughty
princeG: and hello xerraire that we didnt even greet you :/
BShink21: hello
Tigerblade: ok… so any sort of list of tutorial ideas?
Jeff: Clint — a great idea
ShadowdogMU: I like Clints
xerraire: Hi
xerraire: I was on the phone, here now
ShadowdogMU: We can make video tutorials, but then again, video might be bad to dialuppers
Jeff: I think there could be lots of tutorials. Short little things that a lot of people don’t know how to do
dvelez1985: hey a tutorial on internet ediquet
BShink21: hey xerraire
EvilSeph: essentially I don’t tend to post tutorials etc
EvilSeph: because no one reads them.
Clint: dvelez1985 good idea 🙂
Clint: I have no idea where I would post a tutorial.
xerraire: Jeff, when people join, what do they get in their email?
Clint: I wrote one on XChat (an IRC client).
Jeff: actually, the tutorial on connecting google talk etc. has been read over 38,000 times
xerraire: A confirmation email or something like that?
Clint: But people don’t care much about IRC.
Jeff: yes xerraire
Jeff: they get two emails
ShadowdogMU: I think we should promote IRC more, I <3 it
Tommy: yea..
dvelez1985: i think i looked at that one like 38000 times
Jeff: a confirmation email with activation code
Jeff: and a welcome email
EvilSeph: not yet brock.
BShink21: i second that, i <3 IRC
EvilSeph: you’ve seen how unstable services are.
xerraire: On the welcome email…what exactly does it have?
Jeff: an interesting tutorial has a long tail
Naughty: 🙂
Jeff: xerraire: one sec
dvelez1985: so does my cat
ShadowdogMU: Ok, fine EvilSeph =(
Clint: EvilSeph I think I know the problem… it was also occurring on another IRC network (Brock should know)
ShadowdogMU: lol dvelez1985
Naughty: ouch! Watch where you are stepping! 🙂
ShadowdogMU: So, did we skip over the BBB facelift idea?
Clint: ShadowdogMU it seems we did. 😛
BShink21: i like that idea
BShink21: of the facelift
Tommy: ShadowdogMU what do you mean about the facelift?
ShadowdogMU: redesign the site
Tommy: oh
Jeff: Brock, you are the king of redesign
Clint: I do not think that it needs a facelift, as that is a large thing to do, and that would require someone to make a forum skin, as well as a skin for the main site. Maybe you could do it 😛
ShadowdogMU: graphically
dvelez1985: on the tutorial thing though that is not something that is gonna happen over night or maybe not in the next few month either
princeG: does that include change of name toO? :p
ShadowdogMU: lol, thanks Jeff 😛
ShadowdogMU: (I think)
Tigerblade: http://tigerblade.net/chat/ what other tutorial ideas do we have?
dvelez1985: i think that is an idea best expiramented with
Clint: Well, I am new to being a BBB member, so my opinion on the facelift isn’t the best.
Jeff: I like this tutorial idea… and I’ll post a topic calling for suggested topics
Jeff: as for a redesign…
dvelez1985: yeah public opinion would help
EvilSeph: I think the website is un-user friendly
Clint: I think we should also take tutorial requests from other members, too.
Jeff: I think the site needs some redesign as well
EvilSeph: but I asked a couple of people from MSFT and other corporations
Jeff: the menus are confusing
EvilSeph: and they shot my idea down 🙁
ShadowdogMU: we could do reviews as well, like reviews on IM clients and what not
EvilSeph: so I’m just picky.
princeG: are we still against the idea of having animated avatars
dvelez1985: well they aren’t confusing once you get the hang of them
ShadowdogMU: Trillian vs. GAIM vs. Miranda type of deal
Jeff: Warren, what idea was that?
Tigerblade: ok hold up. what topic are we on?
ShadowdogMU: Redesign?
Tigerblade: tutorials or redesign?
ShadowdogMU: both
EvilSeph: that BBB isn’t user-friendly
dvelez1985: redesign
Jeff: I think we’ve closed the tutorials, and moved to the user-friendliness of the website
Jeff: call it redesign if you want
Tigerblade: ok…. for tutorials… Jeff will post a thread about it asking for ideas? on to redesign now? ok.
Tigerblade: here are my thoughts on a “redesign”
Tigerblade: the menus can get a bit confusing at times.
dvelez1985: what menu?
Jeff: (and Xerraire, I haven’t forgotten you question about the welcome email)
Tigerblade: not necessarily to me, cause i’ve been around for who knows how long.
EvilSeph: amen ^^
Tigerblade: dvelez1985 – exactly.
Tigerblade: which menu? of the how many we have?
dvelez1985: no i got the hang of it
Jeff: yes, we have too many
dvelez1985: i’m not sure how you get confused
Jeff: I completely agree
Jeff: it sucks
Tigerblade: we have the site header menu (home/im basics/downloads/chat/forums)
ShadowdogMU: and I personally do judge websites by how well they look, just throwing that out there
princeG: we might not get confused, but newbies can
Tigerblade: instead of “IM Basics”… maybe there have a link to “IM Centers”
ShadowdogMU: true
Tigerblade: and from “IM Centers” you can get to any of the other centers.
princeG: the older menu structure was easier and more good looking, imho
dvelez1985: n00bs can get confused at yahoo their site is much harder to master but they manage
Jeff: princeG, you mean the old vertical menu with fly-outs?
princeG: ye
princeG: s
Tigerblade: i dont remember the old one…
Jeff: I agree… what we have now for navigation sucks
EvilSeph: mind you
ShadowdogMU: CSS dropdowns ftw.
Jeff: we who visit all the time might have gotten used to it
EvilSeph: mess.be is far worse off
EvilSeph: yet people get along with it -_-
princeG: oh definitely it is
Jeff: but newbies could easily be confused and lost
Jeff: so this is a “must do” in my book
princeG: not to mention we gotta do somethin for the wlm/msn support threads confusion
dvelez1985: but newbies need to learn to stop being newbies because if thats the case you’ll get little kids asking stupid questionsd
Tommy: yea
Tigerblade: ok… header menu. “Home – IM Centers – Chat – Forums” ?
xerraire: that’s why I mentioned the welcome email
Tigerblade: do we need to include “downloads” on that list?
ShadowdogMU: yes
Tigerblade: and that way we can skip the secondary menu there
xerraire: perhaps that could be very educational from the start
Jeff: ok… Xerraire mentioned the welcome email…
Jeff: here’s what it says:
dvelez1985: well what i’m saying is if you are gonna make the menus easy don’t make them too easy
Jeff: “Dear (new member),
: Mode change “+o Jeff” for channel #BigBlueBall by ShadowdogMU.
Jeff: Thanks for registering at BigBlueBall Forums! We are glad you have chosen to be part of our commmunity and hope you enjoy your stay.
ShadowdogMU: was waiting on the flood paste.
Jeff: All the best,
Jeff: BigBlueBall Forums
EvilSeph: along with downloads, we should improve each of our individual sections on the site too.
xerraire: Oh Jeff, that doesn’t seem to be enough in my opinion
xerraire: and that is something that is easy to correct
princeG: you could mention that with 10 posts they win their ticket for arcade fun
Jeff: EvilSeph: Agreed
ShadowdogMU: Would that incline them to make dumb posts just to get to games?
Jeff: Xerraire: What would you suggest?
princeG: thats why there are mods, to delete the inappopriate posts
xerraire: Besides a very friendly welcome
xerraire: links to various important places on your site
xerraire: is there a rules or FAQ section
Jeff: Yes, in fact there is
xerraire: the news
xerraire: anywhere you think that would lead them to feel
Tommy: Jeff with xerraire’s idea how about, a section to introduce the mentors, advisors and the admin
xerraire: like they know where they are going and what to do
Jeff: Excellent suggestions
xerraire: on my UE site
xerraire: which is different
xerraire: but they get an email telling where the forums are
xerraire: the gallery
xerraire: the rules page
xerraire: and links to anything HOW TO
xerraire: and if they don’t know anything about the site after that, it wasn’t because I didn’t try right off the bat
Jeff: Great suggestion, and pretty easy to change!
xerraire: thats the point I made earlier 🙂
ShadowdogMU: Nice xerraire!
Tommy: lol
princeG: ++rep for xerraire 😉
ShadowdogMU: (xerraire aren’t you the terragen queen?)
xerraire: 🙂
Jeff: ok everyone, I’ve got about 10 more minutes.
xerraire: well shadowdog, that sounds like a title I should claim as mine
Jeff: some great suggestions
Jeff: have I overlooked any topics already mentioned?
Tigerblade: not that i can think of.
ShadowdogMU: My first one!
Tigerblade: i’m working on writing up some ideas about the IM centers, i’ll post it when i can.
Jeff: ok great
Tigerblade: brock… remind us?
dvelez1985: i think you overlooked one of brocks topics
Jeff: yes?
ShadowdogMU: [9:3:52p] I’ve being meaning to ask about that, we’ve lost a lot of staff lately, any idea why?
ShadowdogMU: [9:3:54p] Ok, well let’s look at it from a different perspective….
ShadowdogMU: [9:3:59p] Tigerblade, ditto 😛
ShadowdogMU: [9:4:8p] (I’ll get to your question Brock)
ShadowdogMU: But that may not be so much for here
EvilSeph: usually I post about welcome to bbb..etc..
Tigerblade: brock… i think a quick answer is that a lot of people are just getting really busy lately and can’t devote as much time anymore
Jeff: Brock… the staff thing is a normal part of the ebb and flow of a website
EvilSeph: but I think it’s overly corny, so I don’t do it that much 😛
Jeff: I don’t see any cause for concern
EvilSeph: it’s not an issue brock
dvelez1985: i’ll be a staff!
Jeff: although one thing we do need to do…
Tommy: heh
EvilSeph: we can easily get people on staff..
princeG: i disagree seph, i think u post much more informative messages than that 😉
ShadowdogMU: Well I’ve only been here about 1 1/2 years, and only about 1/2 staff, so I haven;t seen anything like this
EvilSeph: there are so many people wanting in..
Jeff: is make sure that everyone on the staff feels appreciated… and
Jeff: understands that they make a valuable contribution to BBB
princeG: there are quite a few open positions right now
EvilSeph: well yes George, but I meant along with those posts 😉
Tigerblade: oh… Jeff… i had a quick idea.
EvilSeph: like “Hi and welcome to BBB…/answer to question here”
Tigerblade: for site navigation.
Jeff: yes Tigerblade?
EvilSeph: I must say Jeff
Tigerblade: on the sidebar (at least in the forums) where it says “Latest IM News” in a white block…
EvilSeph: you guys didn’t do that for Vanessa…
Tigerblade: make that a link perhaps? to the latest im news?
EvilSeph: I’m the only one that replied to her leaving announcement etc.
EvilSeph: but, apart from her
EvilSeph: you guys are great at doing that
EvilSeph: oh and Jeff, re: news
EvilSeph: I don’t like posting news or looking at news
princeG: if u want my prediction, in one year from now not even half of the staff will still be staff. It’s life, nothing wrong with tha
princeG: t
EvilSeph: becaues bar the back button on my browser
EvilSeph: there’s no easy way to get back to where I was
Jeff: Godo point Tigerblade
ShadowdogMU: Oh, something that has been bothering me Jeff:
EvilSeph: perhaps add breadcrumbs to the page?
EvilSeph: hey TB 😀
ShadowdogMU: https://bigblueball.com/images/bbbpodcast.jpg vs. https://bigblueball.com/images/call-in-your-question.jpg
dvelez1985: breadcrumbs sounds good
ShadowdogMU: just the image quality of the latter vs. the first
Tigerblade: and in General IM News – there’s no archive?
Jeff: shadowdog… I haven’t had a chance to optimize the podcast jpg yet
Jeff: it needs to be MUCH smaller
Jeff: right now it’s 20kb
Tigerblade: although… there’s only news dating back to 11-29-05
Tigerblade: so nevermind my last comment.
Jeff: the other one is 3kb
EvilSeph: in terms of revenue: personally, I click fun ads
EvilSeph: and I’m sure other people do too
Tommy: yea
Tommy: lol i like to do that
dvelez1985: eww what is podcast by the way
EvilSeph: I don’t ever click those dating stuff
dvelez1985: it involves apple thats why i say eww
EvilSeph: but I do click on fun ads like
EvilSeph: “click the fart button, you know you want to!”
Tommy: heh
Jeff: lol
Tigerblade: dvelez1985 – podcasts aren’t just for apple products.
Tigerblade: trust me.
Tigerblade: although… i do use my itunes and ipod for them.
Jeff: ok agreed — i need to toss some of those lame ads
dvelez1985: what are they?
EvilSeph: podcasts are just broadcasts tuned for mobility
dvelez1985: ic
princeG: can you add a section with BBB’s products? 😉 =p
Tommy: lol
dvelez1985: bbb t-shirts
dvelez1985: bbb mug
Tommy: yea i agree
princeG: bbb thong
dvelez1985: lol
Jeff: dvelez: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast
ShadowdogMU: Jeff, I can get it down to 6KB, and keep it pretty, that still too large?
Tommy: hhaha that was a good piture detn8r made up
Naughty: That thong could be dangerous on the wrong person :O
Tommy: picture*
Jeff: brock, yes, that still to large
ShadowdogMU: o.O
Tommy: heh
ShadowdogMU: But if you make it any smaller, it starts looking like crap.
EvilSeph: [ 09:59:45 ] [ Naughty ] That thong could be dangerous on the wrong person :O << I love the coincidence.
EvilSeph: name + a comment like that, priceless.
Jeff: heheh
princeG: remember the song and its story contest, coulf we revive that or something similiar.. i think it was very godo
princeG: good
Jeff: ah a contest
EvilSeph: it was very hard to work with
Jeff: another good suggestion.
EvilSeph: we could hold contests on IRC
EvilSeph: but I need TCL.
princeG: i had fun with that contest
Tommy: TCL?
EvilSeph: a trivia contest etc.
Jeff: well thank you everyone for participating
Jeff: it’s 7pm here in California
Tommy: it’s 10 over here
Tommy: 10pm*
EvilSeph: or you win something for contributing trivia questions.
Jeff: before I go… I want to remind everyone
ShadowdogMU: Jeff, I can make it 3.2 KB, but again… looks like sh(t
EvilSeph: etc.
Jeff: that I will post notes from this chat in the forums
ShadowdogMU: Sounds good.
EvilSeph: lovely
Tigerblade: like i said, i’m gonna work on some renovations for the IM centers and post a thread about it.
EvilSeph: the CC staff will hate me then 🙁
Jeff: And I want to say thank-you for the support and great ideas
Tigerblade: in the staff room at first, we can expand it later if we wish.
EvilSeph: Jeff, top of my list
Tommy: ok
EvilSeph: revive you know what.
Tommy: your welcome Jeff
EvilSeph: I need to post to that topic again to stop it from being buried.
Jeff: (EvilSeph) I know 😉
princeG: yeah lol
Jeff: So that everyone knows….
Tommy: lol
dvelez1985: lol i stumbled into the chat room at the right time i guess
Jeff: I have taken the week off
Tommy: oh i thought you were here for the discussion
Jeff: from my full-time job
Tommy: oh
Jeff: so that I can spend more time with BigBlueBall
EvilSeph: and you have to leave at 7pm :P?
Tommy: lol
EvilSeph: mind you, I have to leave soon too
EvilSeph: 10pm here though
EvilSeph: 😛
dvelez1985: no i didn’t even know this was gonna happen
Tommy: oh
Jeff: so expect good things this week! 🙂
Tommy: me either i just like being here
EvilSeph: expect my annoying critique 🙂
Tommy: lol
Tommy: Jeff
ShadowdogMU: Jeff, I would be glad to help facelife the site, graphically of course 😛
Jeff: heheheh as always
princeG: seph will get –rep now :p
Clint: Hey
EvilSeph: :
So in summary … the chat topic covered the following ideas and comments:
1. Expand the downloads.
2. More updates.
3. Links to the downloads.
4. Tutorials.
5. Reviews.
6. BBB facelift.
7. CC staff rude.
8. Too many staff.
9. FAQ page.
10. CC – Dealing with reactivation/response to old posts.
11. More user friendly website.
12. Section to introduce staff.
13. Introduction email.Well I read through it and took me most of my lunch hour …. 38 pages, to be exact, hehe So I thought it might help if I did a summary! Saves you some time :0)
I would say in the staff room we have covered a few of these ideas. But it was interesting.
I was quite shocked about the fact that cc staff come across rude and clicky. But if that’s was people think, we have to take that on the chin and maybe in the cc section we should look through old posts to see where people are coming from. EvilSeph mentioned our attitude, so hopefully he will be willing to guide us to the posts he was referring to, so we can review them. Learn from it and move on. 😉
Hee hee…I just posted to defend us…I really do not think we are rude and clicky…I think some people, who have now left the staff, do not understand that backing each other up is part of a good team. 🙂
And no offense to EvilSeph…but he is not on the site enough to really make a sound judgement…I really do not mean that in a rude way…(Or perhaps I’m being rude and clicky). I really take offense to people saying that…I tried to be involved in the chat last night, but I was feeling REALLY sick. I think people just took that as a chance to bash CC without anyone from the area to defend or ask for examples. Everyone has different opinions, and just because Vanessa or some one else does not agree with one action that the entire CC agrees upon, it does not mean we are being rude and/or clicky…they may not have the whole story or know WHY we took the actions we did.
CC Staff is rude and clicky?
Ok… There is this one time I may have been seen as “rude/clicky”… But I have a reason. His intro consisted only of: “Are You a Christian? I’d love to talk to you…” [contact details].
I was offended by this, because he was not acting in an respectfull manner. He was acting like this was a religious website, when it is not. And not everyone here is Christian… If I did not say something right away, he might go off and post more about “Christianity”.[which would not be technically wrong, but could be offensive if I didn’t address some points]. He could really hurt some people if he acted so ego-centrically and closed-mindedly about this… [A judgement on my part, but I just felt like I needed to stop anything bad from happening]… Even though he is new, he should have known to be respectfull of all members…
I’m sorry if I -did- sound “rude and clicky”… But some things need to be done. (Remember sciencefeeling’s sticky on off-topic about this?) I did welcome him in a some-what friendly way, FYI…
About the rest of the chat, I think they are great ideas/points. Especially PrinceG’s idea of more contests, xerraire’s idea (of the gallery, rules page, and anything “How To”),and Tom’s point on how games should not be the main attraction.
Phew well off work now so have some time to respond.
As I say I am trying not to take anything personally here, and want to be proactive. Sometimes perceptions of teams can appear to be clicky, it is obvious in the cc section that we all do get along very well. We have a banter in the forum, maybe this is perceived as clicky. Shame but maybe it does. The fact that some members feel this the way they see us, should be addressed. Then once we have listened to them we can move on. I am quite happy to discuss this with EvilSeph and go over his issues. Then the complaint is dealt with 😉
I am sure in other areas, there has been the odd post, where the staff members said “just search will you!” :rolleyes: …I am sure they have. One thing I must add in the CC section we are not dealing with just IM problems, which are non-emotional. People come to the cc section, sometimes with very odd emotion problems or threads that are very hard to monitor. In so much, that you sometimes have to put your foot down. And even be a bit rude to get the message across. Again maybe we should refer these instances more to the staff room before replying. As again it makes us appear hard nosed to some members.
However, there were many very interesting ideas last night so I don’t want to deviate too much from losing those ideas, as some of them were great.
Over to you. :0)
Minor Arcade/Extra Bits Thoughts
*tosses a hand up* I agree that the scores should be reset for the arcade, they’ve not changed for god knows how long, but the focus is … how to make bbb a better place and keep the focus on the long time point of IMs *shrug* I mean, really, that’s kind of the whole point, I think that a lot of the topics strayed, but all in good meaning. I guess sometimes you just need that extra frivolity to attract people, but to highlight your site, not distract from it.Though I do agree that we need something again to get people involved once more instead of being auto-bots. Perhaps another creativity competition? … one that staff is excluded from? *quirk* Heck, let’s get crazy and do something completely useless and fun, even. Goofy poetry about IMs, stories, logs (okay before people get on my case *whoo past ghosts*, with the names censored of course), who knows man…some of the best stuff is complete frivolity.
The Dreaded “oh god what is sami going to say about the cc blow up?”
*deep breath* Unfortunately, it seems that we didn’t have a single member from the cc group there to defend something I wasn’t aware needed to be defended. I would’ve been, but it seems that I was busy getting the news that my best friend is dying, so I was a smidgen distracted.*shrug* I know people are probably cringing going “oh god, what is sami going to say”. Well, I tell you what, this is what I’m going to say…if I’m that rude and snippy and clicky, then I’ll gladly hang up my hat without dispute. Let’s all stop pretending that Seph wasn’t talking about me in particular as well… The major problem and only example he had was about me, after all. And like Tom said in that same thread, nothing I said was meant to be snippy. I was just surprised and thought it was funny. Heck, I’m sorry if she took it wrongly, but I did try and explain (as did tom) that it was not meant as an offensive move, but simply as basic amusement as to the choice, the subject matter, the date and the thread starter. Amusement…that’s all. And if Seph had -that- much of a problem, he should’ve taken it to me.
Really, with all the nutjobs we get in here sometimes, I think that we’re pretty generically calm in our greetings. Especially in the latest little scuffle that happened with the “uh…welcome to bigblueball” or whatever snip that worship had. We’re the ones that have to break people in on the rules. I can’t count how many private messages I’ve sent welcoming people and then reminding them about the posting guidelines on text formatting or some other rule. Which by the way, is another thing, I think that they need a fresh coat of paint because some we don’t really follow to the letter anymore. Just a lil update.
*tosses her hand up* Meh, I appreciate criticism, but when you harp on a subject to attack a specific group of people, I tend to get a smidgen on the “Uh huh, so why didn’t you come to us” side about it instead of blasting us all over a public room in front of members, which I certainly did not appreciate in any way shape or form. Especially when many times, we’re the only ones that see these people, they never come back after a completely self serving advert on their part (like the christian thing).
And I have a question…
“i think they are very friendly, but maybe, MAYBE, sometimes staff gets to overreact on some peoples introductions and tend to move it to review requested or just talk about it”Thank you for the credit on being friendly but …*tilt* I’ve never moved anything to review requested. I’ve never had a member complain to me, as a matter of fact, I’ve gotten thank you notes from new members for sending private messages on rules as opposed to publicly saying something. And I’m not sure…exactly what’s wrong with discussing questions with fellow team members over questionable posts…or is discussion and teamwork not encouraged? I’m not sure.
As for being cliquey … when you work close with people, you get private jokes and little nibs like that (ryan in the corner et cetera) just things to lighten the mood. And…I guess I should appologize for talking to my fellow team mates on a social basis? Or sticking up for them when they’re talked down to by a person who is not in the know about something? I don’t know…maybe that’s what cliquey is *shrug*
Though I will admit that I’m probably one of the easier people to ruffle when people start getting very overly critical right off the bat, or start little fueds with other members or staff, but considering what I -could- be saying, I feel that I’ve been pretty good about that. … … I just rant about it later in private *snickers*
But hey, another major part of being the first person at the door is that you -inform- the person about the dos and don’ts and correct them on policy. I’m sorry if people don’t like being corrected or get embarrassed and defensive easily, but since our ‘jobs’ aren’t as cut and dry as the other forums, like sarah said, those are non-emotional forums, while ours are not — there get to be complications and conflicts in personality. And if you haven’t noticed, we don’t exactly get the respect as staff on a forum that greeters do in every day establishments. The glories of online anonymity = bravery.
My only real complaint is that someone felt the need to drag this out into the public around normal members and basically drag the cc staff’s name through the mud as opposed to trying to come to us and discuss it like I thought members of a team -should-. …My door is always open…all my information is posted…my personal messages are on, and I’ve always responded to when someone came to me about something. Really there was no excuse for it and I thought it was very … just … unfriendly and cruel to do to someone who’s supposed to be on your team.
Tutorials
Tutorials, I think would be a great place to try and expand in. I remember plenty of times that I found how to’s here, especially with things that I’m just green in, like irc *ick face, thumbs up* I think that’s the only time I’ve ever peeked out of the cc since the big move. But I think that we really could expand this idea into something that could potentially bring in more active membership… or at least more service based activity period.Clint had a great point with this one with the tutorial on the forum and layout nav. help and all. I think there could be many tutorials for trillian and such (I had to scour everywhere to find a how to on how to connect with gtalk with trillian for example)
Minor Concern About Conveying Ideas/Suggestions
*reading reading * …okay I’m sorry but a lot of this seems hoppy and some people just get butt hurt when their idea or suggestion was deemed that it wasn’t needed or something. People, when you’re talking about improvements to a site or forum…you need to check the egos at the doors and think about what’s best for the forum. If people don’t agree, it’s not a strike against you personally, it’s simply seen differently by others. *sigh* Sorry but it seemed to be an ongoing theme throughout the whole thing…egos and such getting in the way of what’s really best for the ‘ball.Operation: “Facelift”
The facelift…well I think that it’s a good and bad idea. The theme doesn’t seem all that…together. We have both custom and generic items everywhere and the menus are a bit confusing.Only problem I see with a complete redesign would be… …once again, I’d hate to bring it up, but people trying to elbow in on things. We have quite a few graphic designers here, and I understand the want to really show what you can do and be helpful, but I get the feeling that sometimes people hunt for personal glory and competition as opposed to practicality and the best deal for the forum…or at least that’s the undertones I get. I’m afraid that at a redesign that we might get some pushiness, some egos and feelings bruised along the way….just worried and don’t want to see that happen.
So… maybe it would be best to discuss suggestions on the design…don’t worry about mock ups or who gets to what first or anything like that…but just discuss it for a while beforehand. Get the concept down and then do it all at once so it fits together nicely like a puzzle as opposed to just throwing pieces around? *meek peek* Or I could be reading this all wrongly. Just a concern. Maybe even going to a third person designer or let just one person do it…I don’t know…
Menu
As for menu friendliness…as I’ve said before, when we made the big move, a lot of people immediately felt alienated and hated it. Others didn’t really care …but I know that I personally completely stopped going to any other section than the CC simply because it was too much of a hastle. I know, I’m lazy, heh, but I have about as much drive as the typical newbie…or at least the attention span *laughs* I’ll toss in some specific ideas when we get some separate threads going here.Welcome Letter
Okay there was some talk about what to include in the welcome letter. I thought that the suggestions were good, perhaps a bit overly excited and excessive, but that’s how we do it up here *chuckles* Um, I really think we need to point out the guidelines and such much much clearer. Right now it’s a sticky in the announcements section, but really, nobody ever goes there unless it’s a MotM post. They might even be better off in the intro section just because that’s where the newbies show up the most and it’s in plain sight then.Also, the talk about explaining the staff layout in the letter or at least in general was great, since we do have a rather… um…unique staff layout. Not to mention that we don’t have a staff introduction page…at least out in the open. I have to do major hunting every time I want to find an up to date roster *tilt* Though it would be rather difficult to have a decent staff page like you used to since the turn over has been quite high lately. *quirk*
Perhaps even something easier to alter as opposed to an actual page? Maybe have a little sticky inside of each forum that has an introduction to the staff that you’ll find in that specific section? Each post will be the responsibility of the team members inside that sticky thread. That way the posts can be easily altered, deleted and added as staff moves around? Just a thought.
“Not Here, Not Now” Topic Concern: Mentors
I saw there was somewhat of a concerned topic brought up by one of our mentors and a complaint that there wasn’t a point to their job. Are we going to address this further, or sweep it under? Personally, since it was brought up, I’d really rather deal with internal conflicts and concerns within the staff before we try and take too much on.Machine can’t work to full efficiency if the gears are in need of oiling, after all.
Yep…that’s my take. Sorry I couldn’t be there. Had a rather sudden visit that took precedence
I was in the chat, obviously, so you can sort of tell what my stance is on some of this just by reading the transcript. But just for sake of clarity:
1. Expand the downloads. and 3. Links to the downloads.
I don’t know exactly what we’d “expand” the section to include. It already covers each of the IM programs, which is the main focus of BBB if I’m not mistaken.The link thing was more or less my push during the chat. I think it’s too much effort for people to try to keep the downloads directory up to date, especially if the downloads/versions are changing. It’s far easier to simply link to the actual download page (or sourceforge page or whatever) for the particular program.
2. More updates. along with 5. Reviews.
Well… yes. We could use more news updates, but then again news only happens as fast as it happens.
Reviews could be interesting, so long as they’re well written, time-sensitive, and relevant.4. Tutorials.
Absolutely. We do need a few more good tutorials written up, about a variety of things. I’ve already suggested a revamp of the IM center section, but perhaps we could use some tutorials on the rest of the site, as mentioned in one of the other threads about this chat thing.6. BBB facelift. and 11. More user friendly website.
Perhaps some of the menus could be reworked, simplified, etc. I mentioned my ideas in the chat.7. CC staff rude. along with 10. CC – Dealing with reactivation/response to old posts.
Sometimes you can’t be all nice and fluffy. When people use gigantic purple comic sans uppercase text for their entire post… something needs to be said. that goes beyond ridiculous, and can’t be excused just because the person is a new member. that’s just common sense.
i honestly can’t come up with many examples where a staffer was unjustifiably *rude* to a new member. there have perhaps been a few less-than-friendly replies, but generally they were well deserved.8. Too many staff.
Well… perhaps. I don’t want to tell anyone to get lost, but still… do we need as many as we do? There really hasn’t been that much need for moderation lately, so perhaps we do have a bit of an overkill?9. FAQ page.
We already have FAQ threads in each of the major IM sections, but we could perhaps use a few simple FAQ topics about general forum use, etc.12. Section to introduce staff.
Seems to me like we had something like this in the workings before, but it just sort of fell out of sight.And… just out of curiosity… we have at least three threads about this thing now. Should we condense these somehow? I know one is in the general forums, one is in the premier section, and one is this one here in the staff room, but it seems quite redundant, when many of the same things are being said in each one.
Forgive me but I am in a rush now with this post.
But I replied to the post below:-
https://bigblueball.com/forums/introductions/36476-my-name-jeff.html
Just notice Jeff has posted about this on Forum Support and showed the interview. Shows there is a problem with the introduction side of things as far as the new people think anyway..
No disrespect to princeg on the introduction thread .. however at the moment the phase “walking on egg shells” comes to mind.
Sigh :0(
That’s another thing to concider there…I mean, really, the CC people aren’t the only ones who welcome people, so we can’t be held accountable for what others may/may not say. Sarah and Elisa are sweethearts, Oats is a great informer to clue them in, a Luci’s great on picking up slack if we forget to say hi. Really, I feel like we’re getting some guff for things that really aren’t always our fault. Point in case, the little thread that Sarah posted.
Really, if we’re going to take the heat for unwelcome posts, then I would rather be blamed for something I did as opposed to being blamed for something I didn’t do. Really, I’m fed up with it to the point where I’m ready to say “everyone back the hell off our section and stop posting because if -you- screw up, we get blamed for it”
Point in case, Sarah got a notable mention of -thanks- from Tea Granny when she was talking about the welcomes.
And another point that people are talking about for being sensitive to new members and corrections is that you just move their post and then PM them with the move, a welcome and suggestions for how to do things…which is -exactly- what I do and have gotten thank yous for it.
Really people, you have to remember that just because you don’t see it, it doesn’t mean things aren’t happening. We move and adjust intro posts and wrongly placed posts all the time, heck, for a time I posted more on my pms then I did even on the forums. I just feel like we’re getting more guff for what people do see and no credit whatsoever for what we do behind the scenes. And not to mention the guff being handed out isn’t even us some of the time!
And believe me…I really do appreciate the help that the other staffers are trying to give…but as we’ve seen, apparently people are super sensitive about stupid things and are going to get their panties in a twist over anything. If they’re given an open forum to complain, they’re going to, even over the most mundane thing. …I’m just tired of getting shyte on for it.
*sigh, mutter* I know that personally I have enough going on in my life right now that I really don’t need any more pointless, superficial bologna from the imaginary world of the internet, and I’m not the only one. I’ll comply with whatever everyone else thinks we should do, since apparently we need improvement to the point where everyone in the known universe has to step in and say “You’re doing a ****ty job” but with no specific ideas for improvement or even a word of thanks for the rediculous things we deal with…just decide on it quickly and move on because I’m tired or discussing it and I’m even more tired of reading about it. When folks have no technical improvements for a place, they’re going to turn on the humans and complain, it’s just what happens…everyone’s a critic but nobody could do any better because it’s all covered in red tape.
Do do this in this situation but if you do the same thing in a slightly different situation, or with the wrong person, you’re boned. I’m sorry but it’s not like the other forums. You can’t give the same copy and paste, cut and dry answer for any two questions, no matter how similar they are. We’re constantly in flux and every reply we make is a risk because we dont know the person. I don’t know how someones going to react to “Welcome to bbb”. Someone might think it’s welcome and inviting, another person thinks it’s generic and cold, another persons just trying to figure out what the hell ‘bbb’ is…I mean, really, there is -no- winning 100% of the time with people.
You do 99 out of 100 jobs well, and you get nothing but critisism for that one poorly done job.
…I’m sorry you guys for the rant…but really, I’m tired of all the damn hostility and preoccupation with the introductions forum when, really, 95 out of 100 people who post there are -never coming back- after their first post anyway. 3 of the remaining 5 will stick around off and on for 6 months, 1 of the remaining two will only visit the tech forums and just peep around the cc every so often, and the other one…well with the way things are going lately, the other one sticks around until they’re MotM or staff and then vanishes *rolls her eyes* I’m being harsh, I’m being unforgiving and a downright bitch, I know, but jeeze you guys, how about some support every once in a while? That’d be really great as opposed to the whole “oh someone’s handing out critisism, that looks like fun, let’s jump in on it”. I mean…I’ve seen I think -one- person give us any bit of credit. One. Okay I’ll take that back, george did say we were nice, but clicky, so that’s a half compliment. One and a half.
Folks talk about being underappreciated. Well, as much as it sucks to not be told “Hey, you’re doing a great job”…it sucks 10 times worse to be told “You freaking suck, you’re wrong, you’re cold, you’re mean, you’re clicky” over and over again. I’d take nonchalance over aggression any day of the week.
I’m going to feel bad about this later, but I would’ve felt even worse not saying it, so really, I appologise, but that’s how it feels ever since that weird irc meeting happened. Feel like we’re constantly under a magnifying glass…and not just for looking, but like little kids do to ants, focusing the light enough to burn us.
*shrugs* Sorry.
Now if you’d excuse me, I’m taking the rest of the weekend off…going to go to the cities and see my friend and get away from the constant scene of pointless critique and insensitive reproach that seems to be ensuing around us all lately.
Peeple of zee wurl, Relax!
-love
Edit: Oh, and by the way, while we’re on the topic of being ‘cold and heartless’ or what not…the only reason I didn’t say goodbye to Van is because I didn’t see her goodbye thread in the Y room. I don’t nose around the other team’s rooms and most of the retirement threads are kept in the main section, and I think that goes for mostly everyone else as well. So I think that little stab in the face, while just mentioned just momentarily, was rediculous.
Totally agree. Jeff that was so out of order to put the chat in the main forum without staff knowledge. CC are **** staff was the basics of that chat in my view with what seph said anyway. After actually talking to him his views in my eyes were nothing. I actually feel like get someone else to do it. I talked to my hubby about this whole thing, I am sorry but this has been, well just find someone else… my hubby could not answer that, he does not know what bbb means to me. But what you did to put that in the main forum?? Well it was so out of order, could we not have discussed this in the staff room first? But then no one answered anyway only cc staff that felt hard done by, no spike no Dave shock horror! I just feel my job here is it just a hiding to nothing. Sorry fuming is not the damn word
I am sorry if I”m in the “Clique” but I have to agree with these two. We support one another…perhaps for the very nature of our section we are more in tune with that way of being. I really also find the discussion in the Premiere Member section a bit of a joke…I mean…over half of them are former staff (as Vanessa so adroitly mentioned). You know what…FORMER means FORMER…you quit…do not have the same right to criticise. I feel really betrayed, as I supported Vanessa…and towards the end she started to turn on CC Staff (then in that post it was a big time turn). If former staff is salty…that’s their deal… Just because our staff (as I have mentioned before) works well together, communicates and gets along does not mean we are in a clique and shut others out. I really find it hard to stomach that people who RARELY if at all venture into CC pass judgement.
I know there are a lot of posts before mine saying something somewhat similar. I know that putting the chat (which to be honest was public for anyone who chose to venture into IRC) in public was something of a surprise for me. I understand you did it to evoke discussion, but in some respects it makes our staff, not just CC look foolish. Shifter was shat upon, with no recourse to defend himself. I know CC was basically ripped a new one, without much defense…sorry…I had massive morning sickness…just at night. I honestly did not have the energy to read…so I missed a LOT of what was being written…and I just saw what EvilSeph wrote at the VERY end…I thought it was a JOKE. Seriously…I thought “Why would ANYONE be afraid to come into CC?” What this tells me is that things are being said amongst the rest of the staff and perhaps I am reading into this more that I should. But, it seems for some reason that there is rift amongst the teams, certainly NOT self imposed. NEVER have I seen ANY members of my team shut others out, NEVER have I seen them say “HOW DARE YOU READ/POST in CC!” Well, in light of this…I wonder why “I” bother to read or post in CC. Sure, this is an IM/tech site…but it DOES have another element…COMMUNITY. Rabid is right about the posts that we get…they are NOT cut and dried. We have to deal with people from all walks of life and emotional states. SOME people are actually AFRAID to post in other sections because they are NOT techy. *GASP* OH my…afraid to post in another section? Honestly…I think this needs to be dealt with and those who cast aspersions on CC should at the VERY least be asked to come up with REAL examples. I have settled down about this much more than I have…but if people feel that CC has no place here…fine…perhaps we should just split off into our own forum…or would that make you think we are just too “Cliquey?”Ok, I’ve come back from camp and I have to say I’m disgusted at you guys. Well, first I’ll say a redesign is nice, however, it should be a STAFF effort, not one guy. I am honestly sick at some people who always try to do everything, we should work together. I am disgusted about this fighting. Saying the CC team is rude was WAY out of order, now why do you do this after you guys have worked so well in the past? I came back seeing all these new ideas and thought hey, this is great! However, people are pissed at each other, I am pretty sure there is gossiping going on. We all love each other here, I left knowing this great place. And when I came back right now, I am begining to have doubts. If we keep up this kind of attititude we will NOT get anything done. I think we need to just chill out, and work together. This year’s theme at camp was about peace, and let me tell you, comming back I did not feel welcomed in any way, and it was anything but peacefull. Mistakes were made and said, and I was so damn surprised at who did it. What the hell guys? What the hell? Yes Eggy said that because Eggy is mad that he can’t just come back and see people who rock working together like they always do and stuff.
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