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October 19, 2004 at 7:18 pm #8231Jeff HesterKeymaster
I was talking about terrorism with a friend the other day, and it got me thinking. Is terrorism an effective way to change the world for the better? I can only assume that terrorists think it is.
Are terrorists crazy? Are they stupid?
More importantly, how do you stop terrorism (if it’s even possible)?
I’d like to hear your perspective, and the general perspectives of people in your corner of the world.
October 19, 2004 at 8:14 pm #70211catnipwarzMemberHA easy, i’ve been telling people for years,the only way to truely stop terrorism, is simple to drop a couple of H-Bombs on the lot, and I guess terrorism is a good way to get your word out, if u think of it, its like the ultamate way of getting attention. but then again in some sence terrorism dose work look at the IRA, they’ve been fighting england off for thousands of years (even though they wernt call the IRA then), but it apparently worked for them, most of irelands free know..rite? now about thes prodistons and catholics…
October 19, 2004 at 8:29 pm #70198Red DevilMemberDrop a couple of H-bombs? On what exactly? Do you think terrorists live in a specific place with a sign over their heads saying “We’re terrorists. Please drop a couple of bombs”? Seriously, grow up. They live in cities, towns villages, full of innocent people. By dropping a couple of bombs on “terrorists”, you’d kill millions of innocent people.
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about with the IRA. It was the Easter Rising in 1916 that was one of the biggest contributors to Ireland’s freedom. The men and women who died for the cause became martyrs, which eventually helped to free Ireland. However, England kept the 6 counties of Northern Ireland. The IRA did not even exist at this point.
October 19, 2004 at 9:00 pm #70195TigerbladeParticipantQuote:quote:Originally posted by JeffI was talking about terrorism with a friend the other day, and it got me thinking. Is terrorism an effective way to change the world for the better? I can only assume that terrorists think it is.
Are terrorists crazy? Are they stupid?
i’m not sure I think they’re crazy, or stupid… keep in mind here i’m really into psychology, so… I think they’re just deluded. for whatever reason, they think that what they’re doing is justified. call it machiavellianism, call it a means to an end, call it what you want. obviously we cant make much in the way of generalizations about terrorists, but i’d say most of them have some rather warped perspective on reality that makes it acceptable for them to do what they do. of course that doesnt explain why they then hide, if they think what they did is ok, why would they fear punishment? but that’s not my point.
i dont want to use stereotypes, but i’ll use the 9/11 terrorists as an example. Islam is a peaceful religion, but one of its tenets involves defending the faith against attack. how far you take your definition of “defense” is subject to your own personal feelings. the 9/11 terrorists were quite obviously extremists and took it to mean that they were commanded by God to go out and destroy any enemies. it’s impossible to reason with these people, because they are so convinced that their faith commands it and that they will be rewarded for their actions. any collateral damage means nothing, it only serves to further their message in some twisted mentality.
i really doubt that we’ll ever be able to completely stop terrorism, I think our only hope is to slow it down. there will always be someone who decides to take their ideas to an extreme and hurt the rest of us
October 19, 2004 at 9:31 pm #70212catnipwarzMemberno no no no, to be honist, ya ya I didnt pass history class but I know what it says in the books: in 1916 easter of that year over 12000 men (one of them men who wrote the soilders song) marched into dublin that was the beging of irelands freedome from England, although they lost that battle in a little over a week, and the english exicuted 16 of there leaders by firing squad, but almost imidately after which fighting broke out all over ireland etc. etc. they’re obviasly had been groups like the IRA before 1916 freeing ireland from the vikings the romans (although that was gaulish tribes at the time) etc., but what I ment by the IRA being a ‘terrorist org. was that the media had dubbed them as that, mainly because them bombing subways and busses accoationaly in london, and other places in the UK still trying to free North Ireland, although I agree that N. Ireland should be freed, but b/c of their randome bombing in london they have most indeffinatly been dubbed a terrorist organization, mabey thats to cruel of a name, compared to alkada. BTW please excuse my bad humor in the previose post. i’m rather a rude drunkard when u get down to the bone in me. and if u thought I was seriouse about the H-bombs, come off it? the radiation clouds would kill off all of europe, and I didnt mean any offence to the honord dead
October 19, 2004 at 11:32 pm #70199Crazy PenguinMember12000 men marched into dublin and taht was the beggining of irish freedom….
Ok.. first of all there were jsut over 1000 men who rose against British rule in ireland.. and most of them already lived in ireland so they didn’t exactly march in, they took over from inside the city.. this rebellion was completely crushed, but the brutal killings of the rebels roused irish support and turned many poeple more agaisnt the british. And tehy WERE NOT TERRORISTS, they fought agianst an occupying power, which makes them freedom fighters, they did not kill innocent civillians.
however this was in no way the beginning of irish freedom, irish people had been agitating for freedom from british rule long before the easter rising, in fact partial devolution was about to take place shortly before the outbreak of world war 1, which delayed things.
Anyway later on there was terrorism, and several “terrorist” groups (though they were mroe focused on damge to property tahn loss of human life), but in my opinion this had very little to do with returning Irish rule to southern ireland, the irish politicians and the people of irelands outright rejection of british rule had more to do with that. however the deaths of the irish who fought on the Easter Rising did help speed up devolution.
As to N ireland being “freed” thats a controversial issue, about half of the northern irish population wish to stay under bristih rule, for fears of persecution in an irish state, presonally I think the current situation is about as good as its going to get, without it the whole of northern ireland would erupt into violence.
anyway this all brings up the issue of whats the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters? Is there one? What exactly is teh definition of a terrorist? Nelson mandela for example, who is considered by many to be a great propnenet of peace, was a convicted “terrorist”.
Personally I can sympathise with individuals in Iraq fighting agianst teh occupying US power, and the palestinians who attack israel, taht doesn’t mean what they are doing is right, just that I can understand there motivation…
Let me give you example if your country had been occupied by say the nazi’s, and you took up arms against them, bllwoing things up shooting at them… now most poeple would sya that the French resistance and the other resitances were entirely right to fight against the nazi’s like that, but Iraqi’s doing pretty much the same thing are branded as terrorists…
Anyway thats all a rathe rlong winded way of asking what do you think is teh difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?
Oh and yeah the can you stop terrorism question, personally I think you can…. look at the IRA a couple of years ago the IRA were letting bombs off all over the palce, violence was rife, but now the IRA have pretty much stopped. If you can remove the root cause of the terrorism it will generally vanish, and in most cases teh root cause of terrorism is an injustice of some sort, a legitimate complaint against another people/country/religion, which causes resentment, and extremists resort to terrorism, but if tehre is a dialogue and compormises are met, and gradually the tow groups work together to remove the injustice, the terrorism will evaporate within a generation, but resort to violence, and terroism will multiply exponentially.
October 20, 2004 at 12:22 am #70196TigerbladeParticipantQuote:quote:Originally posted by Crazy PenguinAnyway thats all a rathe rlong winded way of asking what do you think is teh difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?
the difference is that terrorists see nothing wrong with killing innocent bystanders. to them, no one is innocent, so everyone deserves their fate. its not right to kill innocent men, women, or children just because they happened to be in the same place as your “target” at the time you decided to apply your own form of justice. “freedom fighters,” at least in my opinion, are fighting for some objective, which may or may not be right as far as the rest of the world is concerned, but realize that they should restrict their violence to the people they’re targeting. not the mother and child eating in the diner that are going to die horrible deaths because of some political or religious war.
that’s the difference to me
October 20, 2004 at 1:09 am #70213catnipwarzMembero! bugg** now u know why I faild history, and excuse my horrible spelling too….i did say 12000 sorry. and I dont bleve I said they were ‘terrorists’ when they went into dublin, so please exuse me.
EDIT: ok you win I dont know my history
EDIT: Double post combined. Please use the edit () button above your post to add any forgotten information. Thanks!
October 20, 2004 at 5:27 am #70207gossipingraeMemberI don’t think anyone can stop terrorism. They are everywhere, and every country has them.
October 20, 2004 at 5:36 pm #70200Penguin HunterMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by Crazy PenguinAnyway thats all a rathe rlong winded way of asking what do you think is teh difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter?
There is one difference between Terrorist and Freedom Fighters, the perspective you look at them from. If they are fighting against you, they are terrorists, if they are fighting for you they are freedom fighters. If they fail they are Terrorists, if they succeed they are Freedom Fighter (i.e. the French Resistance.) It just depends where you are seeing them. Neutral countries will see them however the government wants them to be seen.
Terrorism can only be stopped if the Terrorists are willing to compromise, like the IRA. If there is no way to compromise the only way to defeat Terrorism is to give in to every demand people make, which is impractical.
October 20, 2004 at 6:37 pm #70190Jeff HesterKeymasterIs it really that simple? Are terrorists and “freedom fighters” the same, depending on your perspective (and whether they win or lose)?
I have a real problem with attacking innocent civilians who are not threatening their freedom, simply to make a political point. I don’t believe that “freedom fighters” would resort to tactics that devalue human life in that way.
October 20, 2004 at 7:41 pm #70201Penguin HunterMemberWell the French Resistance used to blow up trains that had German supplies on board, these trains also has civilians on board, yet the Resistance went down in History as Freedom Fighters, had the Germans won the Second World War and were still in control of Europe the Resistance would still be around and be seen as Terrorists.
October 20, 2004 at 8:03 pm #70191Jeff HesterKeymasterQuote:quote:Originally posted by Penguin HunterWell the French Resistance used to blow up trains that had German supplies on board, these trains also has civilians on board, yet the Resistance went down in History as Freedom Fighters, had the Germans won the Second World War and were still in control of Europe the Resistance would still be around and be seen as Terrorists.
I will concede that there are sometimes civilian casualties during the course of battle — usually referred to euphemistically as “collateral damage.” But that is distinctly different from purposely seeking to kill civilians, as with the train bombings on March 11 in Madrid.
October 20, 2004 at 8:19 pm #70205QuiksilverMemberthink about it for a second, terrorists have to have some kind of motivation to do what they do. theyre all masterminds but they want to make what they think is a better world because they arent happy with what we have right now, and you cannot stop terrorism. there is always going to be someone that is not happy with how things are and that person will want to change it…sometimes in a violent way. so you can go ahead find all the terrorists and execute them. that wont solve anything because people that arent terrorists will still not like whats going on and they might become terrorists. The world cannot be perfect, and therefore terrorism cannot be stopped.
-quiksilver-October 20, 2004 at 8:35 pm #70192Jeff HesterKeymasterIf terrorism cannot be stopped, what then should we do? Do we even try to stop it? Do we just accept it as a part of life, like death and taxes?
I’ve heard several people suggest that nothing will stop it, but does that mean we shouldn’t try?
I agree that root cause analysis is a part of the solution. Eliminate the source of their discontent and they have no reason to fight. But does that mean acquiescing to their demands? What do you do when two groups disagree on the an issue and neither will compromise? Does it become a battle for survival of the biggest and baddest?
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