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November 23, 2004 at 7:05 am #14932N3m3s1sMember
What do you all think about hackers?? Alot of people hate them and find them to be just criminals. I believe this is not the case, I think they are intelligent and if people werent so stupid they wouldnt have a chance to do what they do, I am amazed at how weak peoples security is, surely these people deserve to be hacked??? after all venerabilities such as sql injection are well known now yet I remain to find thousands of sites out there many of which are universities and gov site thatb are vunerable to simple injection strings like 1=1???? I mean they are just asking for it….:confused:
November 23, 2004 at 11:04 am #105753MartinBradleyMemberPeople deserve to be hacked? How can you possibly say that?
The only people who deserve to be hacked are the hackers themselves. In the UK at least, it is illegal, see Computer Misuse Act below:
Computer Misuse Act
1) Unauthorised access.
2) Unauthourised access with intent to cause damage.
3) Unauthorised modification of data.Out of those three principles, hacking must fall into one of them, therefore it is illegal. Yes, vulnerabilities exist, but you can never make a system 100% proof. Hackers may be intelligent, but that doesn’t excuse them from what they do.
Now, maybe some people do engage in criminal activity when they attempt to hack into things, maybe some people just think they’re doing it out of curiosity, but again, this doesn’t condone it.
November 23, 2004 at 1:09 pm #105755QwertyMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sWhat do you all think about hackers??
They are criminals and should be prosecuted as such.
Quote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sWhat do you all think about hackers?? Alot of people hate them and find them to be just criminals. I believe this is not the case, I think they are intelligent
Not all criminals are dumb, uneducated bumbs off the street looking for a buck. Many corporate criminals are very smart. Do you classify them as too smart to be criminals as well?
Quote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sI mean they are just asking for it….:confused:
I don’t put bars on my windows or close and lock all my windows on hot nights. Am I asking to be robbed?
Quote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sI think they are intelligent and if people werent so stupid they wouldnt have a chance to do what they do.
Silly comment. I believe hackers enjoy the challenge. Even the best technology is penitrable
November 23, 2004 at 6:48 pm #105763kron_19792000MemberI agree with Qwerty, what if you see a window open in a house do you just enter and claim that because the window was open the people in the house were inviting people off the street to enter the house.
Personally I feel that a hacker would not enter a computer just because it has low security, there would be no fun in it. That is what I feel a REAL hacker is after the thrill of breaking into a tight security system not some system that is left open.
I also feel that every good security professional is a hacker of a sort, as the saying goes “To catch a thief you have to think like one”, but that does not give any one permission to break into a system with out authorizationNovember 23, 2004 at 7:27 pm #105759neo_ny_23Memberwell, qwerty and kron may have their own opinions regarding hackers or hacking, but yeah, I also know hacking and I do hack few computers once a while. and which computers? I will tell u something. I chat a lot. especialy in yahoo. and I hv many online friends. and all those friends are from great background and are all good and either have a nice job or studying in best universities. they dont do any kind of stupid things on net. they come here for fun, and enjoy talking. But again there are few people around here, who have devil in their mind. They love troubling people. Booting is just a child’s play for them. And they pretend tobe your close friends and then suddenly they go out post your modified pictures on websites, harass u online or even sometimes hack your computer. Well atleast this is not justified for those people who just come here for good and are not ready for evil things.. Is it?
One of my close buddies from National University of Singapore( one of the best univs in the world) and she herself is also an amazing person who bears no grudge against any one. Infact she is quite similar to RK in many issues, like way of talking, way of thinking etc. But one day she went to this chat room where we usualy hang out and found out that many guys( some old friends ) were like cursing her without any reason. She is shocked and doesnt know what to do. Those very same friends who were fine till the day before are now cursing her badly without any reason.
So what did I do? I talked to the guy who started this after 12 hours( the next time he came online). He said he was bored so he started cursing her. And he knows “hacking” and wont mind hacking her computer or any one’s computer. I askd him to stay away from the mess or else he will pay for it. He threatened to hack my own computer and asked me what do I mean by “paying for it”. I tried to cool down things but he started swearing at me too. Then all I did is this. I asked him, “Kid, your system name is “this” right?. And your system password is “this”? He was a bit taken aback. then he asked me what more do I know. I gave a bio-date of his whole computer including total disk space and disk space left, the memory in his computer, his pentium type, his os, but those were just the tip of the ice berg of what I knew about his computer. But I guess that was enough for scaring him. So I did hack his computer when he was doing something wrong that too against my friend.
In another instance, another friend was pleading me to hack his school’s computer so that I can get the question papers for the exam and he could pass. and my answer was all the time a firm NO. its coz I dont want to misuse my skills. Its for good only.
I know I cant stop all from doing stupid things online. But atleast I dont hack any one’s computer unless he/she is realy misusing something and harassing people online. and yes. I dont misuse atleast my hacking skills or powers. I guess thats why I chose IT networking administration and internet security with Cyber Crime as my major.
To stop people mis-using their powers against innocent people. To kill a poison, u have to use poison urself. To stop a malicious hacker, u have to hack his computer also.
So in my opinion a smart hacker is someone who uses his powers for good only and knows what to hack and when. unlike bunch of small kids who got some tool somewhere and like to use it against everyone.
Edit: :p and nah. am not any super-hero. am just Neo.. Neo Anderson 😀 😉 😮
November 23, 2004 at 10:07 pm #105749DavidParticipantQuote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sWhat do you all think about hackers??
I am a hacker. Not an immoral hacker like you, I’m an honest, working person that likes a challenge and enjoys securing his, and others’ networks. I’m not a criminal.
Quote:quote:
Alot of people hate them and find them to be just criminals. I believe this is not the case, I think they are intelligent and if people werent so stupid they wouldnt have a chance to do what they do, I am amazed at how weak peoples security is, surely these people deserve to be hacked???How can you say someone deserves to be hacked? Do you realize there are fundamental flaws in TCP/IP — that means NO SYSTEM can be completely secure. So I guess you deserve to be hacked too.
Real hackers aren’t jackasses, real hackers are the ones that run the Internet, that run huge corporate networks, the real hackers are the skilled network administrators, the real hackers are honest people. Real hackers are intelligent and like a challenge. From what I can see, you are not an honest hacker.
November 23, 2004 at 10:11 pm #105760neo_ny_23MemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by DavidReal hackers aren’t jackasses, real hackers are the ones that run the Internet, that run huge corporate networks, the real hackers are the skilled network administrators, the real hackers are honest people. Real hackers are intelligent and like a challenge. From what I can see, you are not an honest hacker.
Dave – U think the same as me. cool.
I think and am sure that the real hackers are one of the most smartest people. Coz they not only think how to fool the system and security options in the computer, but also the brain of the computer user and person who secures the target computer. Its like a game of chess. But again. Those who realy know hacking, know how to use it, i.e., for good purpose only. But those who dont know much about it, try to show off a lot and try to hack many computers and pose a threat to others.November 23, 2004 at 11:13 pm #105767N3m3s1sMemberDavid said:
I am a hacker. Not an immoral hacker like you, I’m an honest, working person that likes a challenge and enjoys securing his, and others’ networks. I’m not a criminal.
I say:
First of all you dont know me so why do you say im an immoral hacker???? Yes I am a hacker but whos to say what morality is?? The government??? you??? Also I didnt say your a criminal, you seem to have a guilty conciense. Whever people think im a criminal on the other hand lmfao at them, I dont care what they think. Whats the difference between someone like me hacking a system or a government official??? Who gives me or them the right to pride into someones personal life. Your right all of you. Destroying systems or hacking for what ever your intention is wrong, But who are the government or you to criticise me when the government does the same???? Thats just being a hypocrite.David said:
How can you say someone deserves to be hacked? Do you realize there are fundamental flaws in TCP/IP — that means NO SYSTEM can be completely secure. So I guess you deserve to be hacked too.
If you had read and understood what I wrote you would understand that what im trying to say is: Why the F*ck are government site, universites and large companies still vunerabil to exploits that have been around for years even though all the info on how to patch these flaws have been released???? As far as im concerned yes they do deserve to be hacked.
qwerty said:
I don’t put bars on my windows or close and lock all my windows on hot nights. Am I asking to be robbed?
I say:
Yeh your right but we aint talking about not putting bars on windows or not locking the doors, here we are talking about admin leaving the damn things open lolNovember 23, 2004 at 11:46 pm #105765Roisin DubhMemberHacker or not…you need to learn how to spell. It’s a little bit more important than whether or not you can break into some one’s PC. Hacking is hacking…it all depends on intent and effect on whether or not it’s a good or bad thing. Spelling is either good or bad…yours nemisis…is terrible.
November 24, 2004 at 12:20 am #105758Crazy PenguinMemberCome on the spelling isn’t that horrendous, it’s just that its all one big block of text, lots of typos and there are some comprehensibility problems with improperly structured sentences and the like…..
(Note to self: Big blocks of text are ugly and discourage people from reading them, don’t do it…)
Anyway as to the whole hacking issue, just because something is unsecured doesn’t mean they “deserve” to be hacked. To take the house metaphor, because someone has not purchased the latest alarm system, installed it and completely secured there house, does that mean they deserve to be burgled? I don’t think anyone would disagree with the statement that they don’t deserve to be robbed.
It’s the same with hacking, a system is never going to be completely secured, and a determined hacker is always going to be able to hack them. So just as you don’t “deserve” to be robbed, a system doesn’t deserve to be hacked, the two things are very similar, there is no real difference between burgling an unsecured house, and hacking an unsecured site.
And as the main objects of nemesis’s wrath seem to be universities and governments… well would you rather tax payers money was spent on improving services, or securing your website so ignorant idiot hackers can’t hack them? Personally I would prefer the money to be spent wisely, on more useful things.
The fact of the matter is people who get thrills from hacking websites to cause harm just need to grow up, pure and simple, its childish and idiotic in the extreme.
Hacking with intent to cause harm, access data or any thing which can cause harm is illegal, hacking to try and ensure systems are more secure on the other hand is not, and is indeed admirable.
And on a lighter note….
Quote:quote:I dont want to misuse my skills. Its for good only.Quote:quote:I dont misuse atleast my hacking skills or powersSounds like your some kind of superhero 😉 go forth and defend the innocent!!
November 24, 2004 at 2:50 am #105750DavidParticipantQuote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1s
qwerty said:I don’t put bars on my windows or close and lock all my windows on hot nights. Am I asking to be robbed?
I say:
Yeh your right but we aint talking about not putting bars on windows or not locking the doors, here we are talking about admin leaving the damn things open lolThe is THE EXACT same thing.
I’m not guilty of anything, nor do I feel that way, where you got that from I don’t know. I am a hacker, an honest hacker — I’m not the hacker the media see’s, I’m a kid that knows a lot and can “get into things”. What you appear to do is completely different. And saying “someone deserves to be hacked” is extremely immoral by most peoples’ standards.
Quote:quote:Destroying systems or hacking for what ever your intention is wrong, But who are the government or you to criticise me when the government does the same???? Thats just being a hypocrite.Where did I say I support any “hacking” the government does? Please don’t falsely accuse me being of something I’m not.
November 24, 2004 at 11:26 am #105768N3m3s1sMemberok david just one thing: How can you put me down when you so openly admin your a hacker????
Doesnt that make you a hypocrite????
Quote:I’m not guilty of anything, nor do I feel that way, where you got that from I don’t know. I am a hacker, an honest hacker — I’m not the hacker the media see’s, I’m a kid that knows a lot and can “get into things”. What you appear to do is completely different. And saying “someone deserves to be hacked” is extremely immoral by most peoples’ standards.
Your not guilty of anything lmfao??? Your as guilty as me buddy after all hacking is illegal, all types of hacking be it for good reasons or not.
How can you possibly be a honest hacker lol, I dont tell me before you hack someones system you send them a postcard telling them something like this:Hi im david the honest hacker, Im gonna hack you now 🙂
Lets just admit it that alot of you dont really know the meaning of the word hacker.
Finnally
Roisin Dubh said I should learn to spell: Mmmmmmmmmm well atleast I know how to spell Nemesis 😮 catch my drift???November 24, 2004 at 12:49 pm #105756QwertyMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by N3m3s1sLets just admit it that alot of you dont really know the meaning of the word hacker.
Your probably right. What is the proper definition?
Quote:quote:Yeh your right but we aint talking about not putting bars on windows or not locking the doors, here we are talking about admin leaving the damn things open lolIt’s a metaphor, an example. To show you how stupid your comment was.
November 24, 2004 at 3:58 pm #105771jayr80MemberTruth about Hackers.
Hackers in any case are committing a crime. They are at the very least trespassing where they don’t belong. Some people argue that hackers are stupid saying they are degenerate low-lifes. Others feel the opposite way about hackers, that they are super intelligent techno geeks. Fact of the matter is that most hackers are young kids who get a hold of another hackers program’s and misuse them. Or they read some techno babble about how to exploit a system and they go ahead and do it. Either way when you invade someone’s personal space it is in no way a noble thing. In earlier posts I read about a guy claiming to protect his friend. Noble as that may be it was still wrong to get involved in petty name calling. No matter what who ever performed a hack was more wrong because hacking in itself is wrong. I am a real MIS professional and I have to deal with two bit hackers every day. I have to spend my company’s money on all kinds of hardware and software devices and programs just to keep ahead of losers with too much time on their hands. Although I respect their dedication and in some cases intelligence, these people should be using their skills for fixing the world’s many problems. Hackers out there listen up. Go to college, get a good job, start a nice family, contribute to society. Leave the newbie’s alone and stop causing trouble. 😡
November 24, 2004 at 6:04 pm #105747Jeff HesterKeymasterHacker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.Hacker is a term used to describe different types of computer experts. It is also sometimes extended to mean any kind of expert, especially with the connotation of having particularly detailed knowledge or of cleverly circumventing limits. The meaning of the term, when used in a computer context, has changed somewhat over the decades since it first came into use, as it has been given additional and clashing meanings by new users of the word.
Currently, “hacker” is used in two main ways, one positive and one pejorative. It can be used in the computing community to describe a particularly brilliant programmer or technical expert (for example: “Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, is a genius hacker.”). This is said by some to be the “correct” usage of the word (see the Jargon File definition below). In popular usage and in the media, however, it generally describes computer intruders or criminals. “Hacker” can be seen as a shibboleth, identifying those who use it in its positive sense as members of the computing community.
As a result of this conflict, the term is the subject of some controversy. The pejorative usage is disliked by many who identify themselves as hackers, and who do not like their label used negatively. Many users of the positive form say the “intruder” meaning should be deprecated, and advocate terms such as “cracker” or “black-hat” to replace it. Others prefer to follow common popular usage, arguing that the positive form is confusing and never likely to become widespread.
A possible middle ground position observes that “hacking” describes a specific (collection of) skill-set(s), and that these skills are utilized by hackers of both descriptions, though for differing reasons. The companion situation which illustrates this is the skills involved in locksmithing, specifically picking locks, which — aside from its being a skill with a fairly high tropism to ‘classic’ hacking — is a skill which can be used for good or evil.
As you can see, the term “hacker” does not necessarily imply illegal activity.
And in my opinion, someone using a SQL injection attack is not a hacker. It doesn’t require expert knowledge or skill to take advantage of a known and well documented weakness. That’s not hacking… it’s just being a punk… like taking candy from a baby.
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