Home › Forums › Archives › Community Center › Forum Support › Bug Reports › Squashed Bugs › Staff Room › IRC Ops Policies
- This topic has 17 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 4 months ago by Dr Kimble.
-
AuthorPosts
-
January 5, 2005 at 1:57 am #15785Jeff HesterKeymaster
It seems as though we need to define some basic rules for Ops in irc.bigblueball.com. I’m not sure what those rules should be, but I want to document some simple ones to help eliminate confusion and misunderstandings.
I need your feedback to help define the smallest set of rules possible.
Here are a couple questions to consider:
- Who (if anyone) automatically gets ops rights?
- When (if ever) is it ok to kick/ban a BBB staff member?
January 5, 2005 at 2:06 am #111035OreoMemberWell, I think it’s good to have someone with ops in there at all/most times. There was a problem earlier today with AZN and some other kid where they were pissing off most of us and interrupting the flow of the conversations.
As far as kicking some one off on BBB staff it should be a HUGE offense. (Being offensive to the majority of the peoplethere, attacking another member or Mod, causing problems in the flow of the IRCDoing it just to do it is just silly and just causes problems. It also does not make us look very good to the members….when you need to moderate and some one sees one of us kicking BBB staff off of the site….it lowers authority and makes more problems when you really need to have it.
January 5, 2005 at 3:54 am #111036DavidParticipantJeff wrote:It seems as though we need to define some basic rules for Ops in irc.bigblueball.com. I’m not sure what those rules should be, but I want to document some simple ones to help eliminate confusion and misunderstandings.I need your feedback to help define the smallest set of rules possible.
Here are a couple questions to consider:
- Who (if anyone) automatically gets ops rights?
— All moderators that want it. - When (if ever) is it ok to kick/ban a BBB staff member?
— Never, only if this user is blatantly abusing the operator permissions. As in KB’ing for no reason, excessively kicking/banning for unjustified reasons.
What the hell, as I submit…
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.January 5, 2005 at 4:14 am #111042shifterMemberDavid wrote:What the hell, as I submit…
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
Cuz you aren’t supposed to put your reply in the quote! Took me a few minutes to figure out why the heck you posted in the first place. 😛As for the question at hand, I think all moderators who are willing should be auto-ops in IRC.
Now that the chat link is more visibile to the forum members we’re getting a steady flow of traffic in there. I think it’s important that those who are in the Op position should behave themselves in a somewhat professional manner. If you feel like goofing around, then take off the Op hat and play. Chat should be a friendly place to hang out, I’m sure there shouldn’t be any serious problems with our present moderators being an Op. I think if there is a reason for an Op to be kicked, then it needs to be documented and then the behavior perhaps even discussed in our review or mod forum. I personaly haven’t seen any reason why any of the BBB staff should be seriously kicked/banned out of the IRC channel, but if there is a need for discipline I would suggest a three strikes and your banned from being an Op for a month or something along those lines.
January 5, 2005 at 10:07 am #111031DJHyperbyteMemberRemember there is a difference between ‘IRC op’ and ‘chan op’. ‘IRC op’ means server operator (e.g, someone who has total or partial control over the IRC server). I do not see any good reason to give anyone this status, apart from myself, as there simply isn’t any practical use for this unless you are a server administrator.
As for chanop, I initially thought to give all moderators this status. But, this turned into a kicking and banning war between David and detn8r. I discussed this with both of them on MSN Messenger in a group conversation and we agreed to not run scripts in the IRC channel, to never kick eachother, to be nice, etc… it didn’t help much. The following day detn8r ran some script that made the whole room a mess (I even got complaints from users, that’s how I initially found out about it) and David had banned him for that.
David said detn8r had misbehaved, detn8r said he just made an error and David banned him for it… and I couldn’t say really because I couldn’t find the logs of what really happened.
I decided I didn’t want to put up with it anymore and just removed David and detn8r both as a channel operator (and users were quite thankful, if you want to know honestly). So, everything was fine until another problem arose: there weren’t any chanops anymore!
Well, the moderators who have taken time to look into IRC (and learned how to operate a channel) are too few to constantly man a channel. So, I looked at all users in the channel at the time and I picked the most mature member out of them, which happened to be Tigerblade (who also happens to be premium member), and I recruited them as a channel operator.
Bottom line, it all seems fine to me like it is.
If detn8r and David can’t handle the fact that neither of them are permanent channel operators, they can either learn to be in one chatroom together without destroying it and fighting with eachother, or they can forget about channel operator status.
Oh yes, the guidelines/policies – if you need some good ones, here they are:
– Channel operator status on IRC is something we give out to a selected group of people who behave well on IRC and know how to operate it. This means it should not be limited to moderators or premium members.
– Channel operators will never kick or ban another IRC user (let alone channel operator) for fun or otherwise without good reasons. If someone pisses you off but doesn’t harm the health the channel, then that is not a good reason!
– No scripts. Do not run any annoying scripts that, for example, automatically print in the channel what your system specifications are, or what song you are listening to, or what time it is… or whatever else uninteresting you can think of.
– No colors. Do not use colors (foreground or background) while sending text to the IRC channel.
– Subject of conversation. Do not fall into leet speak (OMGWTFDEWD!), lame geek talk (my processor is teh shiznit!), or otherwise conversations that not everybody can join in on.
January 5, 2005 at 2:18 pm #111037DavidParticipantDJHyperbyte wrote:Remember there is a difference between ‘IRC op’ and ‘chan op’. ‘IRC op’ means server operator (e.g, someone who has total or partial control over the IRC server). I do not see any good reason to give anyone this status, apart from myself, as there simply isn’t any practical use for this unless you are a server administrator.As for chanop, I initially thought to give all moderators this status. But, this turned into a kicking and banning war between David and detn8r. I discussed this with both of them on MSN Messenger in a group conversation and we agreed to not run scripts in the IRC channel, to never kick eachother, to be nice, etc… it didn’t help much. The following day detn8r ran some script that made the whole room a mess (I even got complaints from users, that’s how I initially found out about it) and David had banned him for that.
I banned him after he KB’d me three times, after I asked him EACH time to not do that.
Quote:David said detn8r had misbehaved, detn8r said he just made an error and David banned him for it… and I couldn’t say really because I couldn’t find the logs of what really happened.I decided I didn’t want to put up with it anymore and just removed David and detn8r both as a channel operator (and users were quite thankful, if you want to know honestly). So, everything was fine until another problem arose: there weren’t any chanops anymore!
Well, the moderators who have taken time to look into IRC (and learned how to operate a channel) are too few to constantly man a channel. So, I looked at all users in the channel at the time and I picked the most mature member out of them, which happened to be Tigerblade (who also happens to be premium member), and I recruited them as a channel operator.
Bottom line, it all seems fine to me like it is.
If detn8r and David can’t handle the fact that neither of them are permanent channel operators, they can either learn to be in one chatroom together without destroying it and fighting with eachother, or they can forget about channel operator status.
Oh yes, the guidelines/policies – if you need some good ones, here they are:
– Channel operator status on IRC is something we give out to a selected group of people who behave well on IRC and know how to operate it. This means it should not be limited to moderators or premium members.
– Channel operators will never kick or ban another IRC user (let alone channel operator) for fun or otherwise without good reasons. If someone pisses you off but doesn’t harm the health the channel, then that is not a good reason!
– No scripts. Do not run any annoying scripts that, for example, automatically print in the channel what your system specifications are, or what song you are listening to, or what time it is… or whatever else uninteresting you can think of.
– No colors. Do not use colors (foreground or background) while sending text to the IRC channel.
– Subject of conversation. Do not fall into leet speak (OMGWTFDEWD!), lame geek talk (my processor is teh shiznit!), or otherwise conversations that not everybody can join in on.
I asked det to not do ONE thing, to not KB me, and he did – AS A JOKE, you missed that part.
The fact of the matter is – stop treating the two of us as one person! If one of us ****s around, you treat us the same. Consider that you aren’t in the channel as much as we are, and you don’t see the whole picture. Ask TigerBlade, he’ll tell you that det is much more likely to fool around than I am – and he was the one you chose as the op instead of me or det!
I don’t see why you force us to “try to get along” when he just fools around. What do you expect me to do? We both make the same “level” of jokes at each other, I take it as jest, [as iw as told to] – he bans me. Professional? I say not.
I’ll ask you this Jan, if I ran a script that KB’d you three times, what would you do? – You’d probably kill him, or at least ban him, and you know it.
January 5, 2005 at 2:29 pm #111032DJHyperbyteMemberDavid, you tell me that it’s detn8r’s fault and detn8r’s tells me it’s your fault. I don’t have the logs, I can’t decide on this so I won’t. All I know is that you two are constantly fighting whenever you two are both present in the chatroom.
If you have a solution to this problem, please let me know. If you just wanna repeat what you’ve told me fifteen times already, then please refrain from that. I’m not taking sides on this at all.
January 5, 2005 at 2:50 pm #111028detn8rParticipantHyperbyte, I had already explained to you my situation let you continue to believe that you are oblivious. I am not bitching, I am not whining, and quite frankly.. couldn’t care less if I had chanop status at all. What I did have a problem with is, being told by other moderators how to act in front of other members. Before there were any rules, I was told not to do this, and not to do that.. blah blah. And I AM not going to explain why Dave was KBd the two times by the script, because you know what happened, regardless if you want to agree with it or not.
Dave, you have a very strict personality at times, and you really need to bend it for people to leave you jokes. As one (actually two) in the server threw a pun at you, you snapped and called them lame. We worked that out, and you were going to try and make yourself understand the jokes. You continued to say whatever it was (I don’t even remember now) and because I was kidding around, and +b you for it (and for anyone else.. any chanop jokes around when a member says something to them they don’t like, by returning with, ‘you wanna be +b?’), kicked you.. and then before I had the chance to remove the ban, you already did it, and come wailing back at me.
I won’t truce on this, because I CAN understand jokes that get directed at me.. regardless if I react on them (in a humorous way back). Dave, you just need to lean to do that. If you are going to shell out puns, expect them back.As for no scripts… I don’t agree on it. As for no colors, I also do not agree on it. I will however agree, that the one client I was using.. it’s colors were annoying, and I would obviously not use that one again. Displaying what song you are listening to, or what processor you have, is fine with me, as long as it is in conversation.
A suggestion? Open up new channels.
January 5, 2005 at 2:51 pm #111029detn8rParticipantQuote:David, you tell me that it’s detn8r’s fault and detn8r’s tells me it’s your fault. I don’t have the logs, I can’t decide on this so I won’t. All I know is that you two are constantly fighting whenever you two are both present in the chatroom.And please do not make me look like any more of a fool than you have. It’s fare enough to explain this, but to put words in my mouth in another. I had never said anything was any person’s fault. The only fault I did say however, was that sir. Dave needs to chillax a bit.
January 5, 2005 at 6:05 pm #111038DavidParticipantOh yes, the guidelines/policies – if you need some good ones, here they are:
– Channel operator status on IRC is something we give out to a selected group of people who behave well on IRC and know how to operate it. This means it should not be limited to moderators or premium members.
–No problem with that.– Channel operators will never kick or ban another IRC user (let alone channel operator) for fun or otherwise without good reasons. If someone pisses you off but doesn’t harm the health the channel, then that is not a good reason!
–Again, no problem.– No scripts. Do not run any annoying scripts that, for example, automatically print in the channel what your system specifications are, or what song you are listening to, or what time it is… or whatever else uninteresting you can think of.
–As long as they aren’t overly annoying, or being done at a “heavy chat” time, I have no problem with them. It’s not your place to decide that chat, how about the current online ops decide that? If someone asks how fast my computer is, or what music I like, I’m pulling out DarkEngine. I tell people to stop when it’s a heavy chat time, or it’s a different subject, but if we are discussing computers [see below] then there is no problem with it.– No colors. Do not use colors (foreground or background) while sending text to the IRC channel.
–I won’t agree/disagree, my client strips colors.– Subject of conversation. Do not fall into leet speak (OMGWTFDEWD!), lame geek talk (my processor is teh shiznit!), or otherwise conversations that not everybody can join in on.
–Face it – this is a GEEK community, GEEKS hang out in that chat, who the hell are you to decide what we can and cannot talk about? [Example:] I hate music, so stop talking about it, it’s not something I can join in on.I was thinking rules more along the lines of stop kicking each other, not what can and cannot be discussed. As far as I’m concerned, it’s NOT your place to decide what cannot be discussed in there (Other than things not supported by BBB, X-Rated, piracy etc).
And det – instead of kicking, me please just tell me to lighten up? Take a look at your logs if you wish, I don’t kick or ban for “fun” or anything, nor have I ever banned you for a bad reason. I can understand your script–you didn’t have it off, that’s okay with me! It’s that you KB me for fun, that is unacceptable.
I’m not sure where I told you how to act though, let me know what you are referring to please.
I’m sure I can be a tight-ass at times, I’m still trying to find the right balance between professionalism and fun for the chat.
January 5, 2005 at 6:20 pm #111033DJHyperbyteMemberDavid wrote:Face it – this is a GEEK community, GEEKS hang out in that chat, who the hell are you to decide what we can and cannot talk about?I am not deciding anything. I am proposing guidelines for the chat. Many people left in the past days when you and Chris were discussing your newest ATI ZX4827 and Pentium 4 F84MV with 4838mhz bus chip speed.
I strongly disagree with you that this is a geek community. There are very few people who understand hardware talk at the level you take it to Dave. Keep in mind you’re a lot smarter than the average BigBlueBall user. I for sure don’t understand you two at all and I couldn’t think of anything who visits IRC who would.
you have p4-m
yeah.
Matts runs at like 400-500mhz he said
But it’s only down to 1.6Ghz.
oh.
It’s 1.6/2.8
oh theres only one step?
I guess.
or 1.6-2.8
I’ve only ever seen it 1.6 or 2.8.
hm.
weird
Meh, who cares?
you should play around with it
Why?
Idk, seems like it would be cool
he cant hear me hit my enter key, its the quietest one.
I’m pretty sure it can only go down to 1.6, unless I underclocked it.If it’s the main conversation going on, people leave, because they feel they’re sitting on the side. That’s not something I say because I dislike you, or because I want to show you how l33t my admin powers are, that is something I say because I want the chat to be an accessible place for everyone. Many guests have joined in the past days and many have also left again after 2 minutes because they just couldn’t find a way to join in the ongoing chat.
I think that that, in itself, is a very bad thing.
David wrote:it’s NOT your place to decide what cannot be discussed in there (Other than things not supported by BBB, X-Rated, piracy etc).I disagree with you. It is just as much my right to voice my opinion on the chat and make suggestions about it as it is yours.January 5, 2005 at 6:28 pm #111039DavidParticipantDJHyperbyte wrote:I am not deciding anything. I am proposing guidelines for the chat. Many people left in the past days when you and Chris were discussing your newest ATI ZX4827 and Pentium 4 F84MV with 4838mhz bus chip speed.I strongly disagree with you that this is a geek community. There are very few people who understand hardware talk at the level you take it to Dave. Keep in mind you’re a lot smarter than the average BigBlueBall user. I for sure don’t understand you two at all and I couldn’t think of anything who visits IRC who would.
If it’s the main conversation going on, people leave, because they feel they’re sitting on the side. That’s not something I say because I dislike you, or because I want to show you how l33t my admin powers are, that is something I say because I want the chat to be an accessible place for everyone. Many guests have joined in the past days and many have also left again after 2 minutes because they just couldn’t find a way to join in the ongoing chat.I think that that, in itself, is a very bad thing.
I disagree with you. It is just as much my right to voice my opinion on the chat and make suggestions about it as it is yours.Sure, Chris and I were the only ones talking, is that a bad thing to strike up a conversation? It’s not like other people joined or anything. If someone had joined, I’d have shifted the conversation for them.
What I’m saying is, if that’s the conversation, and nobody else is there, or trying to participate, or joining, then what the heck is the problem with it?
January 5, 2005 at 6:31 pm #111034DJHyperbyteMemberDavid wrote:Sure, Chris and I were the only ones talking, is that a bad thing to strike up a conversation? It’s not like other people joined or anything. If someone had joined, I’d have shifted the conversation for them.But people were already there. There are 9 people in the channel, of which I’m sure wasted, Sjoerd and I were there. I couldn’t find anything to say though, because it’s just not a conversation I can follow. Why don’t you create a channel #geek and discuss your CPU and system specs there? I do not believe it is something that fits in #bigblueball at all. 🙂 Of course it can happen sometimes, but it happens every day for hours… I just don’t think it’s a good thing at all. 🙂January 5, 2005 at 6:32 pm #111040DavidParticipantWell sure, what would you like me to say? Nobody was talking, what do you want me to do?
January 5, 2005 at 6:49 pm #111044Dr KimbleParticipantDave, I agree with Jan. The geek speek needs to be brought down. I myself have found the IRC fun and enjoyable, but when a topic that only two or less people can join in is not for an IRC chat…it is for IM. I feel very much like I am watching rather than joining in sometimes. I know you are very smart and I admire that, but remember IRC is for many people to share ideas at once, not l33t hack0rs to make people feel ignorant..they will never come back. 🙁
Sure if someone asks for computer help then assistamce should be given, otherwise the general chatting should be about silly everyday stuff that everyone can relate to. And nothing sexual either, there are younger members here who we don’t want to scare away!
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.