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July 11, 2004 at 1:53 am #41962f0rbezMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by detn8r
I don’t think you have your facts based on proper findings. I think you have come to the same conclusion as Charles has. You have asked ignorant teenagers. It’s simple to me in my opinion. The only thing that I hold against any one nation is their arrogance. And in my eyes the United States has the biggest arrogance level topping off the charts. This obliviously doesn’t apply to every American, as not all Canadians believe in the same thing, but I do know that many Canadians if anything hold arrogance against our sister nation America.Yes, but it is not us who are arrogant. It could be our government that is arrogant in respect to world affairs. But don’t assume that we too are the same way. It seems like your implying that people think, “Not every American is arrogant, but MOST of them are”. Just like not every Canadian hates us, but most of them do. Its all assumptions and stereotypes. People need to let go of them, and think of us as all the same. I’m an American and I’m probably not any of the things that people assume.
BTW, what you stated is basically the same as I had. I used the the big bully type of explanation. You claim “I do know that many Canadians if anything hold arrogance against our sister nation America.” Its the same thing I was trying to explain. A stereo type has formed and many people (Canadian and not) think that Americans are arrogant.
But why is it that Canadians think we are arrogant? I don’t understand that. I think that most of the world thinks of it like this. Because we are a successful leading nation in the world, we are also a bunch of arrogant bastards?
Or is it because our government chose to go to war with a country without support from other nations or the UN?
This I can see as a possibility, but theres been an underlying hatred toward us even before that.
July 11, 2004 at 3:33 am #41948CharlesMemberQuote:quote:Or is it because our government chose to go to war with a country without support from other nations or the UN?That isn’t accurate. We have support in Iraq from many nations. Many UN resolutions were passed.
What ticks me off, is that countries like France and Russia voted against the USA in the UN because they had deals with Saddam in the UN oil-for-food scandal.
These stereotypes are everywhere. Anyone googled ‘French military victories’ and clicked I’m feeling lucky lately? It is everywhere. Idealy, it would be just peachy if the US could pull out of all countries we have troops in and stick them on our borders, using them to fight terrorism internally. Unfortunately, then we are labeled the selfish bastards that keep everything to themselves and make other nations poor by not buying good from other places. (oil) Jeez, it’d be nice if we could all have hydrogen based cars and have troops on our border while not accepting anyone from any country that supports or harbors terrorism. Even then Americans get a label. Now we are just the nosey arrogant jerks trying to police the world. -_-
[reminds me of an email I received a while back about a peace plan…]
July 11, 2004 at 4:09 am #41941detn8rParticipantI’m talking about my experiences with American citizen arrogance, not stereotypes. I would not have mentioned it, if it was not true. And I used another example in my first post. Charles, I don’t know if you wrote this in your own words, or you copied it from another American source, but you said “If it wasn’t for America”. I have never seen any other nation ever brag about what they have done like this. (Not saying none haven’t – just none in existence in my opinion, because I have never heard of any) Canada had an incredible role in WWII. I bet you don’t know too much about what our grandfathers did for Britain. Canada has accomplished many things as a peace keeping country, but it’s not something that should be bragged about. Not in the media, not between governments, not even between our selves. It’s something we are proud of, and its part of who we are. We don’t do it for bragging rights.
Now, don’t get me wrong, every country has to brag about something… I used to brag to magistyk about Canada’s Health Care. It’s part of being patriotic, and proud.. but some countries run too far off with it and arrogance comes into play.. and I believe this is where America is. Everyone knows how strong America is, what they have compared to other countries, etc. Why do you fell it’s important to brag about it (or mention it)? Again arrogance enters the plot in my opinion.
It disappoints me, angers me, and upsets me that a lot of Americans do it. (Or more so the way they do it). You see it in American movies, in chat rooms, on message boards, and in person.. so by far this is not a stereotype.
July 11, 2004 at 4:42 am #41957lazyturboMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by Raza
“Why everyone in the Europe and America hates us Pakistanis??”. We are not bad guys at all, we are honest, loving, caring, and helping all the way, what the hell is the American and European Media doing with us people? We are being portrayed as terrorists! No way! we are not the Terriorists….No Pakistnai supports such acts at allI don’t think you should care so much about how other continents (people) think of you, as long as you are those things that you listed:), then you have nothing to prove. Anybody from any country could’ve posted a topic like this:)…because there’s hate all around the world, and it’s normal, and just has to be accepted. You can’t expect everyone to like you even if you didn’t do anything wrong, thats just how stereotypes work. The reason why Pakistanis are portrayed as terrorists is because of their geographic location. You’ll never be able to physically move your country out of the middle-eastern area, and you have to accept the fact that you’ll be associated with anything that happens in that area forever. And I’m sure at least one Pakistani supported such attacks (maybe not involved with, but at least agreed with it), I’ve seen even a few Americans that say that they deserved to be attacked by terrorists, so dont say no pakistanis at all didnt believe in the attacks. Everyone hates somebody, and everyone’s a little bit racist…so what.:rolleyes:
No one should think that hatred is a bad thing, because it allows us to reinforce our own beliefs and makes us practice them even more. Hate is a good and natural occurance and its funny how some people still havent realized this. Yes we fight wars and people die, but think about the good things that come out of it. We get to improve our technology, charish human life even more, and develop better medical practices, etc. Imagine if we never fought, we’d still being living in pioneer times, and there would be very little technological advances in our life, and things would be boring. So what if a few thousand or a few million people die in wars, terrorist attacks, or even murders. This planet is still over populated, and running out of resources if we continue to grow like this. We could use a few more wars, and spread more hate if we expect this planet to live longer. Either we destroy ourselves, or we destroy the planet….makes more sense to kill each other and save the planet.:mad:
Quote:quote:Originally posted by HuRRiCaNe22491
Some people just don’t realize that Pakistan isn’t doing anything wrong.:confused:I don’t think you can say that Pakistan isnt doing anything wrong, because every country has to be doing something wrong. Are you saying that Pakistan is a perfect nation?..if it was, everyone would live there, since we all dont live in the same country, each one has its own rights and wrongs and you have to choose to live in the one that best suits your beliefs.;)
July 11, 2004 at 5:34 am #41949CharlesMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by detn8rCharles, I don’t know if you wrote this in your own words, or you copied it from another American source, but you said “If it wasn’t for America”. I have never seen any other nation ever brag about what they have done like this.
You can see the article here. It is Bill O’reilly, blow it off if you wish. Some of what he says is a little out there, but he is right about France and Michael Moore. 🙁
July 11, 2004 at 5:57 am #41942detn8rParticipantThe ignorance that man has pisses me off beyond belief. My anger towards that article is so high I cannot even begin to comment.
July 11, 2004 at 8:16 pm #41963f0rbezMemberI don’t like O’Reilly, he’s a prick. But all I was trying to express is that American citizens shouldn’t be labeled due to the select few that run our country. And not by the other few morons that are out there with rediculous American “pride” and too caught up in it to even hear anyone out. I can see how it may look like we are all into ourselves, but its not all of us. I hate the people that are so into themselves and this country just as much as I’m sure the Canadians do. Don’t like the psycho Pro-America ideas or the Anti-American ones either. I’m somewhere in the middle. Not trying to be a hippy but also don’t want to be an uptight conservative.
July 12, 2004 at 12:10 am #41950CharlesMemberWe aren’t all uptight. 😀
July 12, 2004 at 12:19 pm #41968mdandeMemberi think the name of this web page says it…. Big Blue Ball… We all leave in the same world. If you are going to dislike someone dislike them becouse of how that treat you or for what thay have done to you, dont hate them becouse of colour, nation, or origin, it only limits who you call your friends and everyone is not a bad guy
July 14, 2004 at 4:36 pm #41972RazaMemberHi guys!
I was away for a couple of days…today I came back and studied the board…its interesting to read so many opinions about everything….let me tell you something…actually I dont have any direct contacts with any european or american peole, I found this site woth share my concerns about what people think of us guys overseas…it was a cause of great pain for me when I started using internet 4 years back and I found out that people all over the europe and specially in america and england have a special feeling of hating us Pakistanis…i was much concerned… I believe in love and I believe in live and let live…i cannot bear haterd for anyone… I had no way to find out why people over there in america and europe hate us, in a chat room as soon as I disclose that I m from Pakistan, people simply stop replying me…it was a matter of great concern for me….i stayed hours alone in a chat room…these all things realised me that there is something wrong between you people and us, but there was a big big question mark with no satisfying answer….i m still searching for the RIGHT ANSWER!
Thanx for participaing everyone, keep writing…
July 15, 2004 at 12:59 am #41938GandalfMemberRaza, hang in there and don’t lose hope. I believe that the haters are in the minority, and chat rooms are too often run by that minority. From my own experience and contact with people in the U.S., no one I know of hates Pakistanis. Of course, most of them couldn’t find it on a map either, but that’s another problem. 😉
July 16, 2004 at 1:41 pm #41973RazaMemberHi Gandalf,
Thanx a lot for all the above words…they really encouraged me a lot, I know you are right, but hate is something I cannot stand for….i dont want a single person to hate others…but no one can stop this…so we have to accept….i wanted to know the opinion of netizens thats y I put my question in the forum…many participated and a lot more shall, I hope….
Thanx a lot again and thanx a lot everyone..who wrote some lines…
July 16, 2004 at 7:40 pm #41943sciencefeelingMemberQuote:quote:Originally posted by CharlesAnti-American hate has grown all over the world. Though I don’t see why, maybe someone can fill me in. I do not believe many Americans hate Arabs of any sort. Perhaps the fault of this hatred that would exist is from 9/11. Yes, they were Moslims, but to my knowledge, that is radical Islam– not accepted by the majority of Moslims.
I see on the news Anti-Bush protests around the world. I do not see why everybody hates him. After all, the US has freed more people in the world in the last 200 years than the other nations on earth combined.
Ronald Reagan’s foreign and defense policies led to the collapse of the Soviet Union and freeing of approx. 122 million people.
The state of Israel would cease to exist if not for American protection, and about 5.5 million Jews would be in grave danger.
23 million Taiwanese would be under communist rule if it wasn’t for us.
48 million South Koreans would be living under a dictatorship.
The US removed Milosevich from power who was responsible for murdering thousands in the Balkans.
The US removed the Taliban from power in Afghanistan. (with help from so-called friends)
The USA and Britain removed the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, who was responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East.
America is sending $15 billion to Africa to help victims of AIDS. No idea how much France contributes, if anything. To be fair, Canada sends $270 million, which is substantial.
America has prevented dictators from rising to power in Central America in countries such as Haiti and Grenada.
This costs every American tax-payer A LOT of money each year. I find it insulting that any country dislike America because of its foreign policies. Our closest ally right now is clearly Great Britain. Other countries such as France (saved you guys plenty of times, WWII), Russia (corrupt with France in the UN oil-for-food scandal), and Canada (according to a new poll 40% of Canadian teens think America is evil), long time allies, seem to be showing anti-American feelings.
America has a right to defend itself and its interests in places like Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, and its Homeland. We shouldn’t need UN approval from nations whose media distorts the truth about America. What wars has the UN prevented? All the UN peace-keeping forces were primarily made up of American soldiers. The UN’s purpose was to prevent wars like WWII. I don’t see that happening any time soon.
I have nothing against Pakistan or Pakistanis as long as they cooperate with our government in finding terrorists along the border of your nation. Aiding terrorists is an act against America. If any country does that, they have beef with America.
You are wrong in most of your statements. For example the Milosevic one…, you are not being fair as there is no comparison between USA and other countries, you are half-sighted in everything, you don’t give the other part of the story. Really I am not going to bother giving you the other side of the story, because I don’t think is worth it and I don’t think you could understand it either.
Nobody I know, no media, not any person, hate USA itself, but only have an opinion about the external actions of USA government. So stop being paranoid, because the USA hate is only in YOUR mind, you might wanna get out to the real world for a change.
Communism is a legitimate ideology, as conservatism. I personally don’t agree with comunism in any way, and therefore, I never voted a communist party, but is my right to do it if I want, as is any country’s right to be ruled by a communist party if people choose so. Please. Ideologies are NOT to be condemned in my forum for the sake of it, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you have the right to interphere in people’s will. THAT is apology of illegal intervencionism and THAT is condemned by UN, and THAT is illegal. Illegal activities in general are not to be aplaused in any self-respecting forum, I think.
Freedom is a personal feeling, and thus, you are not able to judge other people’s freedom level in any way.
Please quit defending illegal actions past or present in this forum. And please STOP condemning legitimate democratic ideologies, as we all respect yours.
On a personal note…you really should read a little more, but oh well.
Natalia
July 16, 2004 at 9:03 pm #41965Crazy PenguinMemberI agree with you there Sciencefeeling, but I think its a bit harsh saying charles won’t understand why 😉
Admittedly it would take a long time to rebut some of those points though… so I can understand why you didn’t
July 16, 2004 at 9:54 pm #41951CharlesMemberQuote:quote:On a personal note…you really should read a little more, but oh well.I need to read more? I read a lot thank you. Perhaps you should read further in the thread past that post to see that I noted that that was merely an excerpt from Bill O’Reilly’s talking points memo. It is linked on the previous page so I will not bother to post another.
Because you have failed to provide how I am half-sighted or lying, there is nothing to really dispute. You have thrown these statements out with nothing to back them up, making it impossible to rebut them without entirely repeating myself. Are you saying that the United States had no participating in any of those events? I can assure you your history is off if you think that way.
Quote:quote:Please quit defending illegal actions past or present in this forum. And please STOP condemning legitimate democratic ideologies, as we all respect yours.Illegal actions? Defending illegal actions? I am not defending any illegal actions. Examples mentioned in the O’Reilly talking points such as communism and dictatorship are illegal actions. I am in no way defending them, are you? I defend the right to feel that way, but I do not defend mass-murder, or the choice to commit mass-murder– as these societies did. Putting an end to these actions is not in and of itself illegal. BTW, if you knew your history, Russian Communism is quite different from communism.
If you wish to make a real response to those points mentioned by O’Reilly, without pretending to be the defender of “legitamate democratic” idealogy, then go ahead. I do not consider communism or fascism legitamate democratic idealogy.
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