What do you think of Pakistan and Pakistanis???

First paragraph states:
I need to read more? I read a lot thank you. Perhaps you should read further in the thread past that post to see that I noted that that was merely an excerpt from Bill O’Reilly’s talking points memo. It is linked on the previous page so I will not bother to post another.

No mention of communism.

Communist mass-murder is no different from any mass-murder. That is the point. As an example, the Soviet Union, Stalin ordered the deaths of millions, though none of it was documented. I stand behind my statement that communism is illegitimate. It is illegitimate because it fails, as an economic system, it fails. Period. The government ends up owning everything and abusing its power while forcing its will on citizens. This ultimately led to mass-murder in the Soviet Union. It is wrong. Stop defending countries’ so-called right to kill their citizens and get away with it.

No, it is not a legitimate idealogy. It is fundamentally flawed. The most liberal of people admit this. Oh, and BTW, by illegitimate, I don’t mean illegal, I mean illogical. It is in no way illegal, perhaps if you had read what I had said, you would see that I said this: I defend the right to feel that way, but I do not defend mass-murder, or the choice to commit mass-murder– as these societies did.

The point of this paragraph is to fuel a flame-war. Mods aren’t supposed to do that. My positions are this: America will NOT wait for the UN before it acts against terrorists. My rant in the previous posts requires no other explanation because those numbers are real. While other countries played a big role in many of those operations, America played the largest. Without America, the majority of those operations would have failed. End of story. Can you comprehend that?

However, you fail to elaborate on positions of yours that accuse me of lying. You have failed to provide reason as to why I was being unfair in comparing the US to other countries. You have failed to provide this so-called other side of the story– not because it isn’t worth it, because you don’t have the other side. You have failed to explain why the BBC is biased against America. (I don’t expect you to actually, you don’t live in the UK and clearly haven’t seen much outside media) You are a hypocrite when you say that illegal activities will not be applaused in your forum and then you defend communism as an ideal philosophy.

You may have read the whole thread, but you misinterpreted it. There are multiple meanings to the word illegitimate. The one I use when referring to communism is the fact that it is illogical. Otherwise, I would have contradicted myself, which I did not. After reading this thread, it seems like you support communist society. I feel that you are allowed have your beliefs, though I do not agree with them. Communism is legitimate in the sense as legal, however, it is illigitimate in the sense of logics, thus it is illogical. You may support fascism and communism, though I am not sure as you have misinterpreted the meaning of illigitimate, and I doubt you would. This isn’t a debate as-is, can we keep it less hateful?

I live in a free society, me being from the US. For me to say communism is illegal, would yes, be against my constitution and I would have contradicted myself many times over. Try re-reading it with illogical. I am entitled to my opinion that communism is illogical, right? I’ve backed it up with facts and examples.

Ok kids, time for the admin to step in and try to make some sense of this discussion. 😀

[begin rant]

This has been a troublesome topic for a couple of reasons. First, Raza innocently assumed that “…everyone in Europe and America hates us Pakistanis…” Clearly that is not true. No matter what the media says, we are all humans, and we’re all on this planet together — no matter what race, color, sex or nationality. We all have feelings. We all have opinions. And no one can speak for us — not the media, not the president/prime minister/king/dictator or whatever.

Raza, please don’t make the mistake of assuming that “everyone” anywhere thinks alike. Sure, there may be some people somewhere who dislike Pakistani policy, but that doesn’t mean they don’t like Pakistanis. As for the behavior you’ve encountered in chat rooms — well, chat rooms are not representative of society at large (thank God!). People tend to behave in ways that they wouldn’t behave in the real world. So don’t take the chat room thing too seriously.

Charles, you tossed out a lot of pretty politically charged statements from O’Reilly (well-known for his politically incorrect right-slanting viewpoints). In the context of your message, you shared them as though they were all facts. Unfortunately most of your “facts” were just the statements of someone who purposely tries to inflame liberal-minded people, and cannot seriously be considered as facts. You could have shared them as the opinions of a conservative political talk show host, and that would’ve been fine, but presenting them as facts was irresponsible.

As sciencefeeling noted, BigBlueBall moderators are people, too. They are entitled to share their opinions and viewpoints on topics just as any other member is. Don’t accuse them of trying to start a flame war when they do so.

[end rant]

With all that said, this topic has clearly veered off course. Please respect Raza’s original question, which was about people, not politics.

There are ‘bad’ people in every country, everywhere, every time, and really, nobody can say any one country is to blame. Mankind in general is to blame, and really there can be no blame placed anyway because it’s in human nature.

Speaking of human nature, one thing I have to add in here. Communism is a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. That in itself will never, ever work because of human nature. Someone always tries to up the other people, someone always wants more, is richer in one respect than another. To further it one more step, the idea of communism is that everyone is equal. That will never happen. Some will be richer than others in so many uncontrolled ways. Richer in love, talent, ability, wealth, knowlege, something. So really, I agree here, Charlie, it is not just illogical, but impossible. Communism, ultimately, will always fail simply because of human nature. I find it all rather sad since that would indeed be the perfect world.

And by the way, Jeff with all due respect…you seem rather biased. How is it that you always come off as defending Science and scolding everyone else when she is coming off in a perfectly confrontational manner. I don’t want to seem like I’m undermining you, but I’ve seen this happen more than once. Perhaps you should suggest a better course of action for her as well rather than doing so for everyone else and then candy coating her like she’s a pet.

*cough* Raza…who knows why people hate people. There are people who hate generalizations all the time. I myself am often hated by people I call friends when they find out that I’m not a heterosexual, or when they find out that I’m a pagan, but it’s nothing that you can really blame them for. It is their loss, and in my opinion, those who hate in generalizations should be pittied for they’re missing out on a cornucopia of oportunities. People hate for nationality, creed, religion, political beliefs, sexuality, skin color, school majors, spouses and many other simple little opinions…it’s an unfortunate fact of life, but I tell you this in all honesty when I tell you that I cherish every person on the planet, regardless of any of those before stated factors. Even when I dislike such and such a person, I still can recognize that they are something to someone somewhere and therefore have the right to do and be what they like. I’ve been known to go and help those who I’ve obviously had a VAST dislike for simply because I realize that people, regardless of our disagreements, sometimes need help, and I’m here when needed.
I’m remorceful that you’ve witnessed generalized hate, and that you feel that “all (insert nationality) hate (insert nationality)”, but it’s just not so. Some people are just stupid and petty, and you have to chalk it up to just that sometimes. Perhaps they weren’t biased against you, but simply found nothing else in common, or thought you were lurking if you didn’t speak up after a while. I’ve found in many chats you have to fight for a spot to be heard, especially when it’s a close knit group of regulars. Anyway, I hope you find your answers.

Whose to say if communism or dictatorships are right or wrong though. (Although, I would say generally, they are so dont go off at me giving all these facts and figures.)

What’s the use of the UN if countries don’t listen to it and go off to “defend their interests”? The US alleged Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, that was their main cause so the UN went in to have a gander to try and prevent a war and deaths of innocents, but when they got no results America assmed the UN wern’t doing a good enough job and went in them selves, all gung ho. Results: none. Proper Apologies? Zip.

And killed the most inocents as well, dare I say.

And I have an anti bush prostest, when he condemmed the Russian school attack by the Chechens, it annoyed me. Both the Australian and British PM’s condemmed the attacks, righfully so. But Bush went on to say all this bs about evil people and how they need to be stopped.

Now I dont suport what the Chechens did but after years of militairy confilct it was a desperate plea for indapendence from Russia, as well as the opera house and correct me if i’m wrong, but Bush’s own country once killed for it’s indapendece.;)

OMG, It’s like want I wanted to say.. Only better!:)

In my experices, talk to people and what not, most people dislike, not hate, but dislike America and Americans because of the (possible)majority of Americans being so arrogant, an example being your post, as educated as you may be.